Attila the Hun was a member of a nomadic Asian people in search of global conquest. By AD 432, Attila the Hun had become a leader of historic repute. He gained so much power that his army consisted of 700,000 warriors, and he was content with nothing less than the ransacking of Rome itself. The Huns had a reputation for cruelty and barbarism that was not undeserved. They ate their meat raw (often human flesh), had little use for virgins, and possessed a strong appetite for murder and mayhem. No one could look Attila in the eyes, not even any of his 400 wives.
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Back in 1987, a very famous and controversial leadership book was written, called "Management Secrets of Attila the Hun." The book pretends to be a collection of campfire stories told by Attila while training his chieftains to be better leaders. Of course there's no historical evidence that Attila ever had such fireside chats, but it's an interesting way for the author to infer what Attila might have said under such circumstances.
Here are a few of Attila's secrets that the author claims are fully appropriate for the business world. What do you think? Is there any wisdom in behaving like a Hun today?
YOU'VE GOT TO WANT TO BE IN CHARGE -- You've got to be ruthlessly ambitious. Never be bored, disinterested, or cowardly in any way. Good leaders are lustful leaders. Power is like sex, but don't appear overeager, just extremely determined to succeed under any circumstances, fair or unfair.
PICK YOUR ENEMIES WISELY -- Do not consider all opponents, or everyone you argue with, as enemies. These are accidental enemies. Choose your enemies with purpose. They may be people you have friendly relations with, and in fact, you should let them think of you as a friend, all the while never telling them anything, and lulling them into a state of complacency and acting prematurely.
EXPLOIT THE DESIRE TO ENJOY THE SPOILS OF WAR -- Harness your peoples' desires for short-term gains. Grant small rewards for light tasks. Reserve heaps of booty for other times, and be generous with items that hold a value to yourself. Never underestimate the ability to buy obedience.
EXPECT CONTINUAL IMPROVEMENT -- You must encourage learning and innovation among those you lead. This can be done in several ways, by creating competitions among the people. Never allow them to wander aimlessly. Regularly upgrade your standards of performance.
NEVER CONDONE A LACK OF MORALE OR DISCIPLINE -- Terminate people at the first sign of disrespect for the common good, but by no means stiffle individualism or punish the innocent who don't know the common good. Definitely, do not allow uncontrolled celebration. Pillaging and looting are only fun if done in the name of one's mission. Discipline will build morale.
61 comments:
Ah hah! I like this post professor. I like the way Attila, or well, the author thinks.
"Good leaders are lustful leaders" - I think that is a good way of looking at how leaders should be. If everyone started looking at their goals at work as a quest for sex, everything would be moving at a faster pace =P.
"Pick your enemies wisely" - I couldn't agree more. I make sure my enemies do not know that I dislike them, since it gives them a false sense of power over me. If I am nice regardless of how they may act, they'll think that I am weaker... until I find the perfect window of opportunity to strike back! Go Attila!
"Never underestimate the ability to buy obedience" - I agree with this, since that's how my boss gets me to do all this boring and sometimes complicated work... by offering me breaks after each task and giving me little gifts like flash drives and such.
"Condone the lack of morale or discipline" - I dislike people that find it necessary to disobey orders, just because. If they have a really good reason, then it's alright. If there is nothing preventing you from doing work, then you should always be working -- and not just rolling a pencil on your table, really working.
I want to read this book. I shall check the library and possibly pick up a copy... Then I will dedicate a post to Attila the Hun as well =).
--- Karup
I like the passage of Attila the Hun "You've got to be ruthlessly ambitious, never be bored". This is a true statement in the business world or more in the accountancy region because it is sooo boring yet one shouldnt look at it like that at least i dont. When im at work doing accounting stuff i make a short term goal i have to accomplish in order to reach the long ones. I determine my self to finish it as soon as possible so that way it wont drag and be more boring.
I like the fact that Attila says "Do not consider all opponents, or everyone you argue with, as enemies". I feel like it is way better to have friends instead of foes. He also mentions that you should friendly relations with your enemies. I have heard this to be true for years but i dont understand how i have tried to do so but it just seems like when i do have friendly relations with an enemy i feel ignorant and uncomfortable with myself and since that person id giving me friendly relations back i end up considering the person a friend again and not an enemy.
As harsh as it may be made out to be, the secrets presented definitely seems to be reasonable for the business world. In the business world it is definitely a battle of the fittest. I like the "Pick your enemies wisely" passage because there are many business workers out there who may seem to be friendly towards you but they may think otherwise and look at you as an enemy. There are many people out there who take advantage of those who they built close relationships with just to get an upper hand in their job.
I like how they compared management to sex. "Power is like sex but don't appear overeager, just extremely determined to succeed under any circumstances, fair or unfair." It seems to be for every management secret listed it is all about being able to act and be believable along with leadership.
Behaving like a Hun today would not be so bad since most of their wisdom is similar to today's business world of management.
This author of "Management Secrets of Attila the Hun"...hmmm
I can see Why Attila is used because some of the advice is just down right barbaric! Even thought the professor only gives us a sample of the book I feel as if he (the author) simple mixed and match possible management practices with an AD 432 attitude towards survival of the fittest. I do marvel at the light bulb that went of in his head to write this book because I do see it as a brilliant exploitative strategy to tie the two together (a leader of historic repute and Management) to create a buzz which hopefully equals sales.GENIUS.
The 1st one-you got to want to be in charge – I do agree you should never be bored, disinterested or coward in anyway but I obvious cant condone succeeding under any circumstances fair or unfair because there is that big issue of ethics( right and wrong) and even bigger JAIL.
Pick your enemies wisely – why do we even have to have enemies? Hasn’t the proverbial wisdom of catching more flies with honey than vinegar proven true again and again? It’s always better in my opinion to network with people, be friendly and sincere people tend to remember favorably these things and they would surely get you more places faster. The rest advice pertaining to this sounds down right devious and evil, things you should be wary of.
Exploit the desire to enjoy the spoils of war – never underestimate the ability to buy obedience I agree with 100%. You can’t buy respect but everything else is fair game. To me money motivates and freeness attracts.
Expect continual improvement – creating competition is sound advice. Competition keeps people sharp and on their toes.
Never condone a lack of morale or discipline – I had to look up what morale meant because when I first read the statement that discipline builds morale I had agree. However morale is The state of the spirits of a person or group as exhibited by confidence, cheerfulness, discipline, and willingness to perform assigned tasks. I know longer agree that discipline builds morale but maybe instead discipline builds order. I do however agree that we should not stifle individualism or punish the innocent.
My overall take on the sample contents of this book is that it had some sound management advice scattered sparsely but the rest can truly be seen as what Attila spoke about round the campfire AD 432, a killed or be killed pep talk on how to rule the world… no questions, no prisoners.
Athena
While reading your post, a few books I have read came to mind, "48 Laws of Power" and "The Prince". The books describe how to attain and retain political power. There is no doubt that Attila had great power. Under his specific circumstance and environment it might have been better to be "feared than loved". A good leader is adaptable and comfortable with ambiguity. Good leaders understand people and manages their followers with particularism instead of universalism. Leaders "own" their situations, and welcome and actively pursue new challenges. Attila was never satisfied (400 wives), and always conquering new lands and seeking opportunities.
Words are just words. They would mean nothing unless we place a meaning on them. To say someone is determined and brave means nothing unless we act in a way that describes our meanings of these words. What i mean is, everyone can be brave and determined to some degree, but not everyone can lead or manage. The men in his army were brave, but their bravery came from his leadership skills, and his bravery came from within him; "you've got to want to be in charge".
To waste time,energy, and effort on trivial matters can be counterproductive. A good manager/leader must learn to prioritize. If you have a clearly defined goal, you can "choose your enemies with purpose", but your organization should be a cohesive unit. Any dissention should be addressed immediately. Suppose you are running a firm, you have a goal (increase market share), within this firm you want solidarity and teamwork, but any other firm that interferes with your goal, can be considered an enemy; they should be analyzed, prodded, befriended, and when they slip, cut the head off, metaphorically speaking of course.
Having leadership qualities means that you can manage people effectively. Being able to manage people is easier when you take an interest in human behavior. They say there are as many different people as there are stars, and each one must be given particular attention in order to better understand what motivates them. Again, becasue of the differences, people are motivated by different things. Often loyalty can be bougth with money, but sometimes it might be as easy as a hug; what a true leader does is recognize the differences and uses them to motivate.
As i have already said, any dissention should be addressed immediately. These dissenters have the capabilty to bring down your entire organziation. You want your team on the same page for the same goal without any interfernce expect from the expected competition.
Wow...straight to the point. Attila the Hun meant business. Very ruthless and determine to accomplish his goal of ruling the world. The suggestions the author makes are strong and direct to the point and at the same time you are playing the business world as serious game. The goals you set for yourself are your main priorities and nothing should come in your way. Friends and comrades should not be included in your business because they will eventually have to cross paths with them if you want to be the best at what you do. The suggestions to me seem like some sort of psychology. Getting into people’s minds and making them believe you are the best so you can keep moving up. Be glamorous with everyone even those you may not like and especially those you may consider your enemies. “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer” holds a lot of say to in relation to the author.
While in the business world I think it would be a good idea to keep these “secrets” in mind. It would help guide us to our goals. Following them to the point may be impractical but using them as guidelines can be useful.
Hmm... I want to disagree with some of the points the author makes but the more I think about it the more this advice makes sense. The reason i am resentful to some of author's advice is because leader Attila Hun was a ruthless dictator and that type of leadership is not completely relevant in today's open type corporations.
I definitely agree that you've got to want to be in charge, step up to tasks and never be afraid to take responsibility. That is rule number one and it is surely true that if you don't take opportunities to show yourself you will lose opportunities to move up and succeed. I also agree with concepts of continual improvement, creating competition amoung workers and importance of discipline and morale.
However, I am a bit thrown off by the advice to "buy obedience". While obedience is important employers should be looking for loyalty and understanding of company's needs. Sure, rewarding employees for short term successes and light tasks is important. However, it is also important to assign adequate and challenging tasks and let employees know the value that they bring to company. That will simply help them stay motivated during both good and tough times.
Alex L
You’ve got to want to be in Charge—I think that being a good leader, a person needs to be ambitious and never giving up easily. A good leader should always present him or herself as being an expert and full of knowledge that others can perceive him or her as being a teacher.
PICK YOUR ENEMIES WISELY- This is definitely true that being a leader you need to be able to distinguish who are your real enemies. In my opinion, true friendship can never be formed in the workforce especially if you are working as an upper management. This can relate to the point of choose your enemies with purpose. Some people would show their dislike or even tell you that they dislike you but they might not be your real enemies because they will not stab a knife behind your back. On the other hand, people that you consider as friend might have other motive and in turn secretly damage your reputation behind your back.
EXPLOIT THE DESIRE TO ENJOY THE SPOILS OF WAR— one of the most important factors of being a good leader is to be able to have your staffs to be obedience. In order to get the obedience from your staff, a leader needs to be respectful toward his staff and share his reward with his staff.
EXPECT CONTINUAL IMPROVEMENT—In order to improve there must be motivation for us to do so. One such motivation is by creating competition among others. Having a focus and a goal that we can aim for will effective increase our own standard and possible improve ourselves in every aspect of life.
NEVER CONDONE A LACK OF MORALE OR DISCIPLINE—Discipline is essential when it comes to become a good leader. Always let your staffs know that there are certain rules that must be follow and obey.
Wow, most of these Attila's secrets make sense in today’s business world. For example, the one about you have got to want to be in charge is very important especially if you want to be a successful leader. If a leader is ever boring or disinteresting then no one will ever listen to him/her or work hard. Another example is the one about expecting continual improvement which something that is vital in today’s business world. You will always have to find ways to encourage your workers to be innovative and sharp in order to stay a step ahead of your competition. Bonus money is the best way to encourage innovation among your workers.
Putting aside the turnoff of Attila the Hun serving as the example, these concepts may not be so far fetched. After all, we don't live in a perfect world and sometimes you have to make accomodations in your morality in order to survive.
I don't see anything wrong with being passionate about leading - the problem is WHO is the leader? As for picking enemies wisely, well I definitely agree with that. Unfortunately there are people out there that are just awful and will try to hurt you. In instances such as that, you may have to keep them close and content - I have had to do this more than once and unfortunately it does the trick. If there was another way I would have chosen so.
As for the "spoils of war" I feel this is simply rewarding people for hard work based on the accomplishment. There's nothing wrong with that, right? Additonally, you should always give your people a direction so they don't get lost. They want this. It is no fun for someone to wonder what they should be doing - it actually creates anxiety. And always pushing for improvement helps develop a sense of pride which spills over into the quality of peoples' work ethic and output.
Lastly, there is a saying that one should "fire fast, hire slow." If you have the right matrix, one bad person can spoil the whole culture you have worked so hard to develop. It's best to let these people go quick, it doesn't benefit you or them to hang onto something that will never work (just like a bad boyfriend lol).
I think those techniques are more for a conqueror, a totalitarian, or a dictator rather than a leader for modern day. I agree these methods might work at the time when absolute power meant everything. However, absolute power also proved to be ineffective. In corporate world nowadays, does being a ruthless leader who gained power at all costs really work? Will a "lustful leader" gain the respect of their subordinates? Maybe not. I agree the desired to grasp power is necessary for a leader, but I don't believe taking power under "all circumstances, fair or not fair" works anymore, particularly when ethic meant much more than it used to.
"Pick your enemies wisely," in a sense, it sounds like the saying "keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer." Actually, making enemies to believe you are a friend always exist in the society. I don’t think people would usually tell someone in the face that they don’t like him/her. Most people would just keep to themselves and probably compete with their enemy indirectly.
As for buying obedience, isn’t that is what leadership and management all about? A leader can only be a leader when he/she has someone to lead. He/she would not be effective without the loyalty from their subordinates. Also, corporations are using this technique all the time. Promotions and bonuses are the kinds of “reward” to by employees’ loyalty or “obedience.”
YES, an effective leader always has to encourage improvement in his/her team. Not to mention the ancient world, even nowadays in this competitive world, teams without improvements or innovation cannot survive. Besides, strong subordinates equal to strong leaders.
Does discipline really builds morale? Sometimes when discipline is overused, morale would be damaged. Discipline is more for control and command than to build up morale.
This book does look interesting. I would want to read it for the fun of it. But I have to say, I disagree with many of the author’s points.
I really liked those "words of wisdom" from the author or Attila as he claims. They all make perfect business sense out there.
Ambition and drive is what makes the world go round. Without it, we'd never get much done. But the entire thing about being determined to succeed under any circumstances, fair or unfair...well that just won't do nowadays. I think we can all remember Enron and their attempt at success.
Choosing your enemies wisely is a good tip for anyone. You never wanna be an enemy with your boss. He's the one that's probably gonna give you that promotion if you're a good lackey! Be his pal, his neighbor, his go-to guy...all while plotting to surpass him.
Exploiting the desire for the spoils of war is so true. Who doesn't want to get a little reward every now and then? At my job, our boss is running a competition to see who opens accounts the fastest with a 10% bonus for the amount we open up. Sure makes us work a whole lot harder.
Expecting continual improvement is great but never allowing the worker to wander somewhat aimlessly won't create innovation. At Google and 3M, they specifically give their guys time to work on their own things in order to come up with some crazy ideas. Innovation doesn't come when you've turned your workers into mindless grunts.
Never condoning a lack of morale is always a good thing. Gotta keep those troops up right? But if someone were to break from general pact, you shouldn't take a whack at them immediately. Get them back in line or see what it is they're up to. See if it's productive!
At my other job, I used to never wear my tags and wore sneakers when we were required to wear shoes. Eventually the higher-ups realized that customers saw me only about 5-10% of the time I was scheduled to work. Most of the time I was in the backroom doing my work. Needless to say, they ignored my breaking from the rules especially since I worked so much faster.
Great business tips that work well. Attila could use some updating for the modern world, but great nonetheless!
First off I have to say that I have very mixed feelings about these so-called secrets.
I agree with the "Good leaders are lustful leaders" up until the fair or unfair part. The process acqiuring leadership in a group must be percieved as fair by the other members of the group. Power acquire through unfair mean could lead to and otherwise regrettable outcome for the one who hold this power and the organization itself.
Picking your enemies wisely is another statement I agree with up until a certain point. How you deal with your enemies is extremely important especially in the case of these enemies not knowing that they are your enemy. But luring them into that state of complacency should be handle with extreme caution. When you drive a fox into a corner without even realizing it before its too late, you must be prepared to kill it, otherwise it will try to turn around and attack you without regard for your life. Just keep it running in the right direction without it feeling as is it has a chance to be trapped. This can be applied to dealing with your enemies as well.
With regard to exploiting the desires to enjoy the spoils of war, I would say that reward is important as it relates to positive enforcement. Of course buying obedience is a delicate issue. You go to be careful about the type of obiedience you buy, because if I by the obedience of a bunch of "yes man" this in itself can cause groupthink to occur which almost always leads to failure.
Expect Continual improvement is a another point I have mixed feels about. People have limits, even when it comes to improvement. A manager must be able to work within these limits in order to continually get the best out of those he manages. As for the statement about never letting them wander aimlessly, i couldn't disagree more. If you want improvement, you need creativity, how else are there suppossed to find the way that makes them improve their performance. A manager should only act as a guide for his subordinates. People definately do not always like being restricted by their bosses. There is a time and place for every thing and there is a time and place to allow you subordinates to wander as they may find something important they they may have never been intenting to find.
Terminate people at the first sign of disrespect is something I cannot condone. If you want to ispire people to follow you, you need them to respect you and for you to understand them. Not every one who breaks the rules does so unjustifiablly. First understand the situation before you make a rash decision because this can always comeback to haunt you. I also disagree with the statement Discipline builds morale. I think it should be more towards morale builds discipline. If a person is in a state of confidence and cheerfulness he/she is more willing to do what is asked of them, even if it is to stand still for hours a day or pilage and entire civilitation. Start on the inside and you will see the improvement on the outside.
This, I feel, is the code by which a truly strong manager should live by. I am not going to attempt to sweeten the truth for the common man who does not understand or comprehend what must be done to reach the top. THAT is exactly what it takes! We hear it all the time, POWER IS LIKE SEX! You want it so much you think you need it. You like it so much you will do and say almost ANYTHING to get it. And when you have it, you will be damned if anyone even dare take it away from you. Well that is atleast how a GOOD and STRONG leader should be. Choosing enemies is certainly a skill. You have to "pick your battles" and no who is worth stepping over to reach the top. What will you get out of it and are you sure you can "beat" that person at this "game" of business? Once you know who they are you need to "keep your friends close but your enemies closer." It allows you to watch them and the element of surprise will be on your side as well because they won't expect it. When it comes to those under you, a great manager, will hold on to his assets and will, at the same time, make sure they want to be held, that they like it. Reward employees, pay them for their services and pay them extra for the extra services. Make them want to do things for you and make them want you to grow and gain power. When there is little extra to do however, make something happen. Give them a reason to work for you. Continuously have a purpose for those under you. That purpose can even be a competition to see who can do the most or do it the fastest. Watch them as they strive to work harder and faster. The hardest part for me would be to deal with those who don't listen. If they don't understand, one needs to explain. But if they do understand and they chose to "disrespect" you by disrespecting the company with full knowledge of the fact. An example needs to be made that it will not be tolerated. They need to understand that a powerful manager is just that...POWERFUL. Oh Attila, we need you here today, you know, not the "killing" you, the "business man" you. I wonder if Donald Trump is your decendant?
yes, i like this post a lot. it is wise.
however, i don't like "we should rule the world"... i think that's why i am not a good leader.
from experience, i really agree the author "YOU'VE GOT TO WANT TO BE IN CHARGE". Strong leadership is like that. But, i am not sure if it is a good leader in this way. i do agree that "don't appear overager, just extremely determined to successed under any circumstances, fair or unfair". this also gives me a lot of motivation. i can feel the wisdom from this point.
"do not consider allopponents, or everyone you argue with, as enemies. these are accidental enemies." i also like this point. it really shows me that Hun is a wise leader... i am wondering how he come out this great idea "accidental enemies"... i love this idea...
Hun knows people, especially the human nature, "Harness your peoples'desires for short term gians." Actually, i feel that big corperation also do this. in this business world, this idea is really true...
"EXPECT CONTINUATION IMPROVEMENT." this really show that Hun is definitely a wise leader. he has what we need to be successful in our mordern world, not just in his time.
i feel his theories are really good. i think i should practise them. Thank you for such a great sharing, Professor.
I don't really want to leave a really long comment. But do want to say a lot about it. First i was really suprised that you used Attila the Hun as an example for us. But that was just the first impression...later i realized if he was soo successful obviously he was good at what he was doing. I really liked the expression that
"good leaders are lustful leaders" , i agree with that cause you really need to want the power in order to get it. Im so sure that if so many put their energy into getting power, achieving new things than they do in sex. They would be alot more successful people ;). But that just a thought and not everyone are going to agree with that.
Three statements I agree the most with Attila the Hun is the concepts of YOU'VE GOT TO WANT TO BE IN CHARGE, PICK YOUR ENEMIES WISELY and NEVER CONDONE A LACK OF MORALE OR DISCIPLINE. We have got to be ruthlessly ambitious in order to place ourselves in the “game”, desire to enter this competitive world. After being in this competitive world, we then not only need to know how to control ourselves but also need to learn who are we competing with(which I think can be say one of the hardest thing to do) Choose our enemies with purpose, it is like playing chess, every steps we make should have a purpose. And the third is never condone a lack of morale or discipline (I think this should be the fundamental of everything, in business, politics, education…) If we do not have a strong base of this last concept, then it is hard to develop anything to the most extend. What can we build a bridge without strong abutment, right?
Hi,
I like this posting professor, it is very interesting that Attila's views can be converted to today's business. Alot of his suggestions and then actions can be used today on a much more toned down method. Where as it was easy for him to act on impulse and kill or pillage, it is not as easy today. You have to be very careful in today's world not to break all the laws that are created to protect the individual. I think that you can still accomplish these suggestions but you have to be alot more slick about it. You would have to cover your tracks and make sure all your ducks are in a row before you act.
Success! The font color has changed!
Can you imagine working for that person? Where is his/her heart?
I think that people will perform to their best moral and mental potential when they are given the rewards that drive them to success, which is stated in these guidelines. However, the masochistic obsession with power, especially the line "power is like sex," bothers me. The only way to have power is to have others below you. I would prefer to see a leader that is willing to take on the responsibility of leading others, not make others take on the responsibility of serving him/her.
Best,
Reagan
My man... Damn professor you hit this one out of the park. This author has some great points but I'm definitely going to have to read this book to see where he was going with these points. Honestly, everything he says makes sense, but you can't have that state of mind, all the time anyway, in business.
Lustful, motivated, keen, and fearful are definitely some great characteristics of a good leader. Applying these characteristics to running a business takes a lot of brains though. You have to be able to be an Attila, but also do it legally.
You always have to be one idea above the competition, but keeping them where they are while helping your company. The people that work for you need to be rewarded as well. Granting bonuses will keep your employees happy, hopefully promoting their attitude towards working more efficiently. Lastly, using a sense of fear. I'm telling you this is the most important trait that all great leaders possess. It's just how they portray it and the amount they use it that differs.
It seems like successful leaders have their own unique characteristics of how they take control and management their group of people. Attila's leadership skills are being tough and going his own way to claim his powers to conquer territories. Among a leader's actions, his success is either liked (a hero) or disliked (cruel person like Attila).
Attila might be a cruel and cold blooded person in people's eyes due to his leadership actions, but some of his techniques are agreeable to our current business world. For example, is the "you've got to want to be in charge" factor. I think that in order to be a successful leader, you have to have this "I am in charge here" in mind all the time. If one acts that way, he is very ambitious in wanting to get things done the right way and the way he wants it. Another factor is "expect continual improvement," which I think that each and every person should seek improvement in themselves every day. Leaders should encourage his people to learning and innovating new things due the advanced technologies we have nowadays. I think this benefits both the individual and the working environment. We need to be up to date in order to survive in the business world.
The other factors that you mentioned are also somewhat agreeable, but I personally like the two I mentioned above the most. There are many other techniques for one to be a good leader, which all depends on which ones he decide to choose. And they will succeed in someway or the other.
I think that Attila's secrets are still very useful nowadays. Even though Attile the Hun lived in the past and we're in the modern worl, many things have changed, but some things like desire for power, success and money are still important. That's why I think that his ideas are still very useful, especially in the business world.
Attila was right when he said "pick your enemies wisely." I agree with it, because we never know when we'll need their help, especially in the business world. It's always good to pretend that you like everyone, regardless what you might think of them!
"You've got to want to be in charge" - if a person wants to be a leader, he/she must have something to make him a good and inspiring leader, because no one is going to look at him if he doesn't have the skills and abilities to be in that position.
I couldn't agree more to "never condone the lack of morale or discipline." Rules are to be followed and I dislike people who disobey important rules, just as to turn off or put in silence their cell phones in the working place, but some people simply talks on the phone instead of working.
I think that this book has a lot interesting points, not only for the business world, but also for the daily life.
Attila the Hun?! More like Attila the Man!
Crank that Doughnut Boy!
--- Karup
Attila and his philosophy. This is my take on a good leader.
A good leader rules with his people in mind. What is best for my followers as well as myself. What can and will I do that will benefit all those that look to me for guidance.
Now getting into Attila's philosophy: You got to want to be in charge: To be a good leader you have to want the job. If you don't want the job then you will not excel at it. As far as power, I don't believe a good leader looks at the task as being the mighty powerful one. Power is a dangerous tool. To have power is to control. A good leader isn't in the business of controlling, he's in the business of leading towards a purpose, a common goal.
People who quest for power never get enough, there is always something else conquer.
A good leader doesn't buy obediance, he/she gains loyalty and respect from his/her people. Loyalty and respect would go a whole lot further than obediance. Obediance that can be bought will go to the highest bidder. If your followers respect and feel they have a obligation to you they will stick around when times are bad. People that are bought are gone as soon as someone can offer something better. Friend or foe, should be treated with respect, you may think someone is your enemy only later to find out that wasn't the case. People tend to know when someone is putting on a pretense in being friendly. But if you treat everyone with respect, you won't have to worry about offending anyone. You never know that person you thought was an enemy is the one who might have to bail you out of a bad situation. The only thing that I can say I really agree with is expect continual improvement and you have to want to be in charge. A good leader stays abreast of the changing times and expects his/her people to stay abreast of it as well, by providing them with the means necessary to keep up. A good leader supports and standby his people which helps to keep thier morale up and staying on point. A good leader doesn't have to worry about these issues, because he/she always keeps his/her people provided for, in better words happy. They take the time to know whats going on in the company and whats affecting whom in what manner, and they address the situation. I would rather be a good leader than to have power. once you get power the rush is gone, and you continue to seek that rush and its never like its the first time.
I agree and disagree with some of those point. A person should be ambitious especially for a leadership position.
You should pick your enemies because you don't want to have too many or the wrong ones. The backstabbing part is about semantics though. I think its possible to get to a high level management position without screwing anyone over. You have to show management why you're better that the rest, not why everyone else is worse.
I don't know just about the short term rewards to motivate workers. I think you need long term goals or a vision for workers to be motivated as well. And the short term rewards should be random in my opinion. If you do it constantly, the workers will come to perceive the rewards as normal and nothing special.
I agree with the discipline part. While you can't crush a person's individuality with a corporate atmosphere for instance (many companies do this and its de-motivating), you can't allow for "uncontrolled celebration" as it is put. If you don't have discipline people will probably not do too much work and still expect to get paid.
I guees that an article like this would help me understand the hidden agendas that seem to consume my current employers. In any case, to me it seems to be ruthless. It goes against my conscientious role that has played a part in my personal experiences. But in the other hand, I can see how such tactics would work. A business transaction is like warfare. Any one that has seen any combat experience could see the similarities. You have to be ruthless and uncomapssionate for your fellow man. After all, you are looking out for yourself, number one, as did Atilla the Hun. It is warfare and there is no room, in this kind of scenario for someone like me. COmbat expreriences have adverse effects, as well.
Attila's secrets are still valuable for the business world. Though we do not use swords and axes to conquer the world anymore, the principles he applied are the ones that are often used by powerful leaders today. A few of Attila’s secrets that you posted are some of the behaviors we discussed in the class as characteristics of good leaders.
YOU’VE GOT TO WANT TO BE IN CHARGE: A good leader should definitely have a strong ambition, so that they can set up a vision and direct his or her followers.
PICK YOUR ENEMIES WISELY: To know one's competitors and keep friendly relations with them continuously will be really hard but important. In the business world, today's enemies can be tomorrow's alliances depending on the situational changes. Therefore, to maintain good relationships with even business enemies will be necessary for the future
EXPLOIT THE DESIRE TO ENJOY THE SPOILS OF WAR: Giving rewards at the right time with the right amount is one of the effective ways to motivate people to do their best. A good leader should know how to make the best out of using rewards.
EXPECT CONTINUAL IMPROVEMENT: These days employees’ intelligence is regarded as one of the most important assets in the business field. To be innovative in doing business, a leader should encourage continuous learning and stimulate competition among the people.
NEVER CONDONE A LACK OF MORALE OR DISCIPLINE: A leader should know when to use discipline to keep things in order. Today’s business field is like a war without a sword. Competition between people should be encouraged, but it should be done within the code of conduct. If not, discipline should be used to build the ethics.
From my perspective, all of the above secrets that were used by Attila the Hun are still valuable in modern day. It is surprising that he knew exactly how to motivate people in those days.
Hey Prof..I definitley like this post. I agree with "Pick you enemies wisely" because you never know who your going to have to work with or need help from one day. My grandma used to say it all the time, Keep you friends close but your enemies closer. Get to know them and keep them at a close distance to keep an eye on everything they do. This is especially important in the workplace because you never know who is out to get your job or even just to get you fired. Every move you make could be something they see and try and get you to mess up.
I think all of Attila's rules are great to keep in the back of your head when trying to get ahead or even just into a new business venture.
Have a great day!!=)
I'm surprised by the Attila's barbarian act, but I'm much more surprised by the book.
I totally agreed 'you've got to want to be in charge'. Ambition is your motivation, is your first step to success. I don't have the ambition to control people, but I totally understand that.
However, I kinda disagree with 'pick your enemies wisely' I believe try to make no enemies is the best thing for yourself, is the fastest way to succeed. Moreover, is a waste of time when in the process of your enemy tried to harm you, and you tried to revenge too.
For expect continue improvement, I think is harsh on people when there are barely things too be improved and you keep expect improvement from others.
Overall, I agree with that, and after reading this, I'm 100% sure I'm not a mangement type person.
This is very entertaining. I wonder if Attila the Hun would have really agreed with these notions.
But i definitely agree that to be a leader you have to want to be a leader. There is always someone who would rather lead than follow. In my experience it's the person who wants it more, who is willing to make sure that he/she is the person who qualifies for such leadership positions.
Another obvious idea is that lack of morale and discipline should not be condoned. That seems to be a principle to follow - from early childhood, people notice that if they are allowed to get away with something once, they can probably get away with it twice. So i believe the same thing would apply in the office.
As for picking enemies wisely, i could not agree more. When there is competition between people it would seems a lot smarter to be diplomatic than hateful! Learned that the hard way at my first job, with a fellow coworker.
This is an incredible analogy, between management and Attila. But according to history he would seem to be me, a more "Wizard of OZ" type leader, rather than the diplomatic and approachable leader we prefer today.
Wow, it seems like we have to behave like Attila the Hun in order to gain power and to 'termninated' those that prove to be threatening.
I do like the "Pick your enemies wisely". Never consider everyone in the office as enemies, whether they are in higher or lower position than you. Sometimes they prove to be your best assets to rise to the top.
As for the "Power is like sex, but don't appear overeager, just extremely determined to succeed under any circumstances, fair or unfair"... i believe this is a true statememnt and that already being use in this dog-eat-dog world. People will do anything to succeed.
I do not think this will be any different from the books found in those self-help section except that this is from ATTILA THE HUN!
I like picking your enemies wisely and continual improvement most because I agree that in making an enemy, there must be a purpose in doing so, and how to deal with the enemy is an interesting thought depending on the person. Also, the will of continuously improving is very important because humans like to compare one with another.
I completely agree with the statement that "you've got to want to be in charge". I think it is natural that you can be a great leader only if you want to be a leader, and I beleive it is true regarding any other occupation, because in order to do something great, you really should want doing it.
I disagree with the statement, "never underestimate the ability to buy obedience". "Buying obedience" might work for a short term, but in a long term, it can become dangerous.
Overall, I agree with the statement "pick your enemies wisely", though I have an impression that Attila considers everyone around him much less smarter than himself.
I disagree that in order to get continuous improvement you need to create competition among the people. (Reminds me the history of Socialist competition, or socialist emulation in USSR).
It may seem harsh in reality but all these are so true. Good leaders do lust for power. If power is not what he/she wanted then why is he/she is leader. There are so many fake people in the world especially at the work place. Co-workers tend to pretend to be your friend and they just gossip about you behind your back. I think that is the nature of work place.The part about using people is absolutely cruel but true. If people want something and you could get it for them just as long as they help you, why not? How you get to the result doen't matter, the result is all that matter. Think of your grades. A person seeing a C on your transcript will not think you struggle and tried your best to get this grade, he/she will just think this person is either lazy or not so smart. I think somehow we all want to believe this world is perfert but its not.
Hola!
Definitely to be a leader as Attila the Hun will say it needs to posses an interest to be in charge, desire to pick your enemies wisely, driven to exploit the desire to enjoy the spoils of war, expect continual improvement and never condone a lack of morale or discipline towards other.
I think discipline will never build morale. Morale consist in the way you think as making decision that you belief to be right or wrong. On the other hand, discipline is about to be organized and follow the rules stated to be lawful. These two could be very different and may take you through different paths. According to the reading Attila the Hun said to never punish the innocent who don't know the common good; this is an example of morale and like he also said, definitely, do not allow uncontrolled celebration. Pillaging and looting are only fun if done in the name of one's mission; this is discipline.
Two of "Attila's secrets" immediately caught my attention. Partially because my boss uses these two secrets on me, and since I use them on those with whom I communicate. Expecting continual improvement from your subordinates is a good way of motivating them, especially if more than one person is involved in the process. Keeping expectations constant is synonymous to keeping expectations low, since as we become more proficient in a task the execution time gradually dwindles. In this case if a manager did not expect continual improvement from his workers he would be undermining their abilities and setting them up for a failure. At work I’m motivated by the bar that is incessantly raised, including a constant flow of new assignments and a fellow analyst, with whom we keep each other in check in terms of performance and task proficiency.
Atilla was absolutely correct. Appearing overeager is a direct shortcut to disenchantment. Keeping your head leveled, and endeavoring to achieve under any circumstances is the infallible way to be ambitious. I’m not planning to conquer the Byzantine or bring the Roman umpire to heel. Nevertheless, I try to be ruthlessly ambitious as often as I can at work, school and life.
The few secrets of Attila the Hun seem very harsh but in order to succeed in the business world I guess you would have to act this way. I’m definitely not the type to be a leader but even if I was I don’t think I would be able to act the way Attila did. Succeed in any circumstances? Fair or unfair? Would that person really act right and how about if he hurts millions of people and win, would he really be happy? I WOULD NEVER LET ANYONE THINK IM THEIR FRIEND AND REALLY BE THEIR ENEMNY. How can you be nice to someone and go behind their back and rat on them or stab them in the back. Maybe in 432AD that was the only way to survive in the world but today I believe we don’t have to do that in order to be good leaders. I think I would only agree with encouraging learning and innovation among those you lead. You want your followers to be bright and think outside the box. But don’t punish them and lie because you will get something out of it in the future. That is not right and you will never be happy.
This is an interesting story. I have read many of these books in Chinese describing how successful ancient emperors control their soldiers with cruel hand and soft words. Most of these emperors’ strategies are similar in nature and differentiate in how they express/use them. I never come to like the way they rule over others, yet I commit that they really works. Two of the things mention in the post I would like to talk about are creating competitions among people to encourage improvement and good leaders should be in charge.
I agree that good competition among people is necessary because they help workers to find out their weaknesses and strengths. So people will know how to improve themselves.
A good leader should be in charge to maintain orders within a group, otherwise, people can not be bring together easily.
As I work with my current job, I have experienced about four different managing directors.
First one was a good speaker, smart and had a charisma. But he was fired by board of directors because he was not blended with the top organization and too prominent.
Second one was not the type of leader at all; which means that he never had an experience of a leader and as well as no experiences in living Korea so he had no idea what he was doing. Terrible. He was replaced in couple of months.
Third, he was from a board of director and he wanted to manipulate everything that in his way. It didn't work out well either.
Fourth, he is a just good listener but not actively behaving as a managing director. So I was thinking that may be that job needs to be regularly changed and nobody can maintain longer life?
Who can be just a good leader?
No answer. It just has to adjust to its environment and situation and time.
Strong, Charisma, Smart, Aggressive, Cooperative.. All are important but how it apply to the situation is more important.
I like this post. "YOU'VE GOT TO WANT TO BE IN CHARGE," this is one quote that should be used in business. I feel this is important for those who are born leaders, you can't just fall into leadership, you have to want it.
"PICK YOUR ENEMIES WISELY," this is one that I feel is very important in life. Everything isn't always a fight, you should pick and choose your battles. Like when I have disareements with my boss, I pick and choose when to show her when she is wrong, if I were to get her too mad, she could make my time at work worse than it already is.
Attila had some pretty good ideas. The best of which is probably "pick your enemies wisely." As long as you do this, you will never have to be the fly going against the man. Instead, you can take gradual steps to the top. If you can gradually and continously topple the person right above you, then eventually there will be no one to topple. Of course keeping good morale is a must for this, and thats not saying that the other stuff is not important. But on a scale of most needed to least needed, Choosing your enemies wisely is definately #1.
Wow, Attila is the man. Definelty from another generation not mine will a leader like this emerge
"YOU'VE GOT TO WANT TO BE IN CHARGE -- You've got to be ruthlessly ambitious. Never be bored, disinterested, or cowardly in any way. Good leaders are lustful leaders. Power is like sex, but don't appear overeager, just extremely determined to succeed under any circumstances, fair or unfair."
Today a student cant read quiker that another and he has A.D.D gets pills and extra time. Fifty years ago he/she would have learned to overcome it naturally withjout extra time and be better than rest. Helen Keller, and Ray Charles did. Now we cry its unfair. I think Attilla would of killed you than told everyone else thats what happens when you dont roll with the punches of life.
I might be crazy but when I hit the work force in July I want a mange like Attila. I want stucture, no cry babies, coworkers that if they miss the subway run to work..A wishy washy manger will never get this( in my mind and from what Ive seen from expieirnce).
With what i have just said you might think I am contradicting my comment to the "Wizzard" so let me explain.
Attilla was in the tranches with his men, The Wizzard was behind a curtain. I think that paraphrases it very nicely
Expecting continual improvement. This is definitely in a good managers arsenal. Good leaders and managers insist on this to be able to adapt to the neverending change their is in the world. This is true also in poker. Their will always be different types of environments and you have to change and adapt quickly or be forced out of a tournament or ring game. You also need to have that fervor to want to improve, and also be able to take charge and want it like the author says. It's fairly easy to get bored or disinterested with being a good leader. It takes a lot of effort, but you have to find a way to keep your leadership fire going, so others see what leaders expect of them.
Throgh the eyes of the author we see how true these words aretoday as they were when this book was written 20 years ago. Competition is everywhere you go, might it be business, law, or your own business. "You've got to be ruthlessly ambitious, never be bored", holds as much value of not more today, being on Hands on in everyhting you do is essential in such competetive world.
Attila's techniques work and history showed that and wil show over and over again, perhaps inthe society today, you need to use these techniques but also modernize them, and not to the barbaric view of dominance in everything.
for insance the third point where punishment of somehting not done, people do deserve a second change and i dont agree with that view however if you see that an individual is not performing to teh best of his/her ability, then some course of action should be taken. As a good leader a conversation or a confrantaion of the person might help to understand the problem, in order to expedite it better.
Some of this management advice seems a little barbaric,... this could have probobly made sense in the buisness world,.. but now a days,.. people dont respond as well to demands. Attila had some good tactics, but some of them cant really be applied. I do agree that to be a manager or leader you are going to want to be in charge. If you are forced to do a job, your job will never be done sincerily or genuinely. If you really wanted to be in charge you would be eager to do so. I do agree that if you are a manager, you cannot be afraid, because you are putting others at risk for your decision. Others depend on your guidence and choices that you decide to take. Its good to want to have power, but at the same time its not good to be so hungry for power, in the end nobody wants a dictator, they want a leader.
Atilla also suggest to pick your enemies wisely. I do agree that it is important to know who your enemies are, but I think that you have better things to do with time than to make friends with someone that you will want to take down. I hate to see when others just want to shark thier way to the top.
Everyone knows what thier role is at thier job, so should they be rewarded for what it is that they are already supposed to do? In most cases I agree that people should be recognized for thier hard work to maintain motivation, motivation is something that is very hard to come accross so as a manager you want to make sure that you dont loose that. In this case small rewards are a good management strategy. This also goes for Attilas strategy for encouragement and innovation. Sometimes change is something healthy, you can often think of better ways to get things done, and this is also a good strategy to be ahead of your competition.
The only strategy that might be a little extreme is to terminate someone at the first sign of disrespect. I do believe in giving second chances, because people have to learn from thier mistakes. I also believe if you are able to forgive a subordinate for a mistake, they will be more motivated and loyal to the next task at hand, ultimatly making things a more unified goal/experience.
-tania
Attila the king, the leader of Huns was an extraordinary man. He conquered half of the world and challenged the Rome itself. But, of course the way that he managed his people (not only the army but whole nation) applies to today's world. We also have to want to achieve a "constant growth". What I mean by that, we always have to have a desire to have more; to explore new opportunities to look for other advantages. Like Attila we have to use the rule of "small steps" Attila first conqured small nations and then, he challenged Rome. Ambition - that the key element. It drives our behavior, desires. It can lift us up, but it also can destroy us.
I think that all of these points are important to keep in mind for leaders of all kinds. I think that these are useful points to use in everyday life as well. These are things that one may learn along the road of life and keep in mind in the business world and in school too.
Is there any wisdom in behaving like Hun today? yes, because in the business world you have to be very aggressive and know what you want. This is the way you'll get anywhere in life especially in todays world where it keeps getting colder and colder. (harsh) Everyone does to their own interest and thats how you have act in order to not be taken as a fool. *Two things stated that I thought was important was "Grant small rewards for light task". You have to keep your team loyal. Easily they could turn their back if they see no reward or expression of appreciation. The other is to pick your enemies wisely by keeping them close to you as friends.
Wow. Am I the only one who's never heard of Attila the Hun? And what's up with the 400 wives? I agree with the "you've got to want to be in charge" tip. It's true with that sort of attitude you express to people that you want to be a leader and if you are really persuasive or even scary, people will start following you and listening to what you have to say. I never knew there was a technique to who your enemies were. I'm taking notes especially with buying obedience. The last sentence is powerful and I stand behind it 100%. It is true and when you think about it, it makes complete sense. If you obey, you will know what is right and what is wrong.
First things, first, i am going to read this book and about the great man.
YOU'VE GOT TO WANT TO BE IN CHARGE:
Absolutely and positively thats true. There are some out there that are not there who are not 'born' leaders but it's their desire to be in charge which may make them succeed as one. While there are others that are 'born' leaders, i mean as in all the characteristics required to be one, but if they are reluctant to be ones they will never be able to utilize those skills. Endurance is also a must, when the going gets tough the true leader gets going.
PICK YOUR ENEMIES WISELY:
Once again spot on. Don't get into a fight that you know that cannot be won, instead take that time out and attack when your enemy is weak, when you know you have a chance. And as far as being friends with your enemy and not letting them know you are one, i am not a big fan of that. That would make you a backstabber and may tarnish your legacy. For some it may suit, in the end all depends on the kind of leader you are.But on the other hand leader of one type might do something opposite of whats could be predicted about him. Understandable, different people behave differently in different situations.
EXPLOIT THE DESIRE TO ENJOY THE SPOILS OF WAR:
Obedience can be bought, but this kind is temporary. The most long lasting one is the one thats earned, this may not apply to Attila because as i have read he seems like on the extreme of the aggressive side. Others may prefer the other way, once again depends what kind of leader you are.
EXPECT CONTINUAL IMPROVEMENT:
True. Especially in today's world.If you don't improve you lose.
NEVER CONDONE A LACK OF MORALE OR DISCIPLINE:
Morale i guess could be forgiven, and rather should be try to be instilled in people. Some may employ fear to do (like Attila) while others(Almost all) would find other humane ways.
Discipline, lack of this should not be tolerated at all. Because lack from one person WILL spread to other. It's higly contagious and thus should be dealt with severely otherwise its going to eat away the foundations of your vision community like termites through wood. Look at the army, the perfect example of what discipline can bring about. Although i don't agree, for now at least that dicipline builds morale, will pay attention to this and get back.
All in all some of these advices are good and others are not. For soemone as aggreessive and ruthles in nature like Attila, they may be good word for word, while other may only agree with some of the points. But since the book was written with Attila in mind, it shouldn't come as a surprise.
I can definitely seem some truths behind these theories, but they certainly are to the extreme. Even though these points are very insightful, they are not best for everyone. My favorite is, "Pick your enemies wisely." This couldn't be more true. The worst thing you can do is underestimate your opponent and charge head on without a plan. No matter what the situation is, you must approach tactfully and be well prepared.
Yes, by rewarding what other people had accomplish is very important. employee will get motivate and feel good about it. which could increase their attitude and feeling to work.
I believe that in order to succeed in the business world you have to be like the hum. You need to be very ambitious, and determine to be in power. In order to really accomplish success in the business, you have to have a desire to achievement. Now when you get to that position, remember to keep you contest or enemy closer than your friends. This is a dream because we all know very well that the top is a really lonely place.
I dont like this guy Atilla at all. There is no doubt that he was a great leader (700,000 is a lot!) but that doesn't legitimate his methods. I would never be a great leader in the cost of being manipulative and dishonest to my peers. Sometimes the business world acts like that, but some things are more important than money. One good point that "Atilla" had was the demand for continual improvment. As a manager, that is a totally legitimate approach. We can all learn new things and improve ourselves every day.
I like all of those guidelines. Do not enjoy the perks of war too much is deffinately a good one. If one gets into it too much, things can go too far. And "you must want to be a leader in order to be one" is also a very good one, and true. People that are placed in charge when they do not want to be, do not end up being very successful leaders. I actually have an example. My dad's friend owns a summer sleep away camp. I have been going there for a while, but not as a figure of authority, but just to hang out. I would always hang out with both, the councelors and the kids. This past summer, I was goign to spend a week there just to relax, and it turned out that one of their councelors got sick and had to go home. They asked me to replace her for the week. As you know, I do have a leadership personality, or so I would like to think. However, I did not want to tell these 14 year old girls to get the boys out of their rooms, and yell at them if they did not get up at 7 am for excercises. I hated doing that to them, I just wanted to be the cool one and let them do anything, but was not allowed. After a few days I gave up. It was not in my nature to ruin these girl's summer and fun. I understood them too well. So they got an old lady councelor. While I remained their "buddy" and someone they can come and talk to for help. So to be a leader, one deffinately needs to want to be one. Not be made to be one.
Hope you enjoyed my story!
I dont know if all of this is exactly accurate in the business world today... There are a few VERY good point from Attila's strategy if it is true. I would mostly agree with the points made about Pick your enemies wisely... I think that it is very importaint to identfy those who side with you vs. those who oppose you and you sould always be alert about everything thats around you. There is a saying "keep your friends close and your enemies closer". If you cant trust someone at work you will alwyas be looking over them. I disagree with the "Never underestimate the ability to buy obedience". LOL Obedience isnt for sale! If you report to your boss do you honestly think if you slip him some money or buy him a present he will start listening to you?? I think NOT. I think that you have subortantes that listen to you and you listen to your boss!!
In my opinion "The Leadership Secrets of Attila the Hun" seems on point. Whether it be true or not, there are lessons to be learned. "You got want to be in charge." Of course you do! How are you going to be an effective leader if you don't want to lead? "Choose your enemies wisely." This can be connected to anything and everything today. Just like a boxer, you got to pick the right fight. "Harness your peoples desires." As a leader, it is important to know what your subordinates desires. One can use this for your own benifit. "Expect continual improvement and never condone lack of morale or discipline." As a leader if you can't up the ante while keeping morale high, your not effective. Growth is a must and discipline is a must. I think there is plenty of room for Hun-like management.
These definitely appply to the business world today. You've got to want to be in charge. Without ambition you are not motivated to do anything. When you lust over something, you are more like to go after it and get it. Your not willing to stop until yuo get what it is you desire. The saying "Keep your friends close, your enemies even closer," directly supports the authors views. You must keep your enemies in close proximity. They must feel secure in your presence and not sence your threats. This way you can manipulate them into doing what you want. People love receiving gifts for things they've done. You can buy a persons loyalty and obedience through gifting. This view is also in accordance with Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs. Self-actualization is the top priority for people happiness and productivity and work. So, giving small gifts for small tasks is a key ingredient to promote success. A leader should always encourage their employees to want and do better. This way the employee will feel as though they have a big impact on the company and will want amd feel as though it is their duty to perform better and be more productive. As far as discipline in the workforce, disrespect should never be tolerated. Peoples behaviors influence others, and negativity should be addressed immediately.
though that guy is a good leader with no doubt, i dont think being manipulative and dishonest is the right way to do things.
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