Here's an experiment that involved 5 monkeys, a cage, a banana, a ladder and a water hose. Tell me what you think.The 5 monkeys were locked in a cage, after which a banana was hung from the ceiling with, fortunately for the monkeys (or so it seemed…), a ladder placed right underneath it.
Of course, immediately, one of the monkeys raced towards the ladder, intending to climb it and grab the banana. However, as soon as he started to climb, the researcher sprayed the climbing monkey with ice-cold water. In addition, however, he would also spray the other four monkeys…
When a second monkey tried to climb the ladder, the researcher again sprayed the monkey with ice-cold water, and applied the same treatment to its four fellow inmates; likewise for the third climber and the fourth one. They all learned their lesson about how things work: they were not going to climb the ladder again – banana or no banana.
But the experiment did not stop there. In order to watch what happened, the researcher replaced one of the old monkeys with a new one. As expected, the new monkey spotted the banana, thinking “why don’t these idiots go get it?!” and started climbing the ladder. Then, however, it got interesting: the other four monkeys, familiar with the cold-water treatment, ran towards the new guy – and beat him up. The new guy, blissfully unaware of the cold-water history, got the message: no climbing up the ladder in this cage – banana or no banana.
When the researcher replaced a second old monkey with a new one, the events repeated themselves – new monkey ran towards the ladder; other monkeys beat him up; new monkey does not attempt to climb again – with one notable detail: the first new monkey, who had never received the cold-water treatment himself (and didn’t even know anything about it), with equal vigor and enthusiasm, joined in the beating of the new guy on the block.When the researcher replaced a third monkey, the same thing happened; likewise for the fourth until, eventually, all the monkeys had been replaced and none of the ones in the cage had any experience or knowledge of the cold-water treatment.
Fianlly, a 5th new monkey was introduced into the cage. It ran toward the ladder only to get beaten up by the others. But ask yourself this: why would these all new monkeys beat each other up over the banana, when none of them ever experienced the cold water treatment? Probably like human because they learned: "that’s the way we do things around here”…
I got this story from a colleague. It reminded him – and me – of quite a few of the organizations we have seen. Over the years, all firms develop routines, habits and practices, which we call the firm’s “organizational culture”. As I am sure you know, these cultures can be remarkably different, in terms of what sort of behavior they value and what they don’t like to see, and what they punish. Always, these habits and conventions have been developed over the course of many years. Very often, nobody actually remembers why they were started in the first place... Quite possibly, the guy with the water hose has long gone.
Who do you want to be? The monkey that goes along, or the one who questions “the way we do things round here?” You may initially take a beating being an agent of change, but actually you might be doing something valuable for the organization. And there's a banana in it for you if you learn to question the status quo...
75 comments:
The first 5 monkeys that experienced the cold water spray were denied what they really wanted, the banana. From there, the monkeys taught newcomers about "how things worked" and a routine was developed. If you think about it, this sort of thing happens to alot of people in the corporate world. Many people are denied a new position, promotion or job and because of that they get discouraged from continuing to pursue what they really want. To me this story represents how we should not fall into that same routine just because others tell us do so but we should continue to find other ways to get that "banana". In other words, the people that do succeed are constantly jumping over hurdles to achieve their goals.
I see this experiment from two views. I beleive the first five monkeys were teaching the new monkey that they are all going to be hurt or sprayed if he tries to climb the ladder for the banana. By them beating him up he understands that he shouldn't be going after the banana. We think its bad because they are fighting him, but that is how they have to show him to not to go for the banana since they can't really communicate like humans. I also beleive if they really wanted the banana bad they would find a different way to get it or take 5 second spray from the hose to grab the banana. Nothing is free in the world today and everything has a price. You have to work for what you want in order to get it.
This is a great example of the phrase, "It it ain't broke, why fix it?" Many companies are so ingrained to perform their duties and tasks in a specific way that sometimes the company believes that any sort of change will drastically hurt the company. At the same time though, change for companies could be troublesome.
I believe you should always be looking for ways to improve the company, your procedures, or routines. Through your own capabilities of course.
Of course you face the problem of running into monkeys who want to beat you up for change. But demonstrate what you can do and how a procedural change will help and I think you can get that banana.
I think this story about the monkey is interesting and very funny. Interesting because it shows comparson of how us humans are similar to the monkeys. We humans just adapt to things without asking asking why? Just because someone told us its wrong we believe its wrong and ont bother looking at it twice. In cultural aspects people tend to follow traditions and rules that were set along time ago. The world has changed and these traditions and rules have also changed. Even in an organization as you can see in this monkey story people are still like them. Most people just go about business just following the rules and staying in the box. But people need to think outside the box and ask why cant we do this or that. Whats worng in doing this?
I think what happened inside the cage is similar to the business organization. It is because that the monkeys in the beginning develop a new culture and routines and it is similar to how a business organization has their own culture and routines when the organization is developing. If the new comers did not really follow the culture, then the original people (the old monkeys inside the cage) will give them some penalties in order for the new comers to learn the culture. If the new comers do not have the power to change the culture then they will continue the culture and using the same penalty to teach the other new comers in the future. The monkey’s case also shows that there is “no free lunch” in this world, if you do not take the pain or risk then you will never succeed.
This monkey experiment is very interesting in the fact that it also illustrates "human culture". It reminds me of the fact of how humans learned how to "stand in a line" and why we did such a thing. If it was bad to break the line or cut the line, what was the consequences and how did we know of these consequences.
In applying it to corporate culture, I believe doing these routine or habitual things in the firms are one of its major flaws. I say this because by doing the same thing everyday and just conforming to the standards of anything hinders creativity and the right to think on ones own accounts and beliefs. How about if the founding fathers of our country or even Bill Gates for a more modern example conformed to this culture and never questioned anything, than America as we know it today would be a lot different place. It took the creativity that they possessed to make the great things they did possible.
The monkey situation illustrates a similar condition of how a business organization functions. As the old monkeys are replaced by the new monkeys, the original reason why the four monkeys would beat the one—who wanted climb up to get the banana, became less apparent, and as it continues, this original reason would be completely eliminated. Just like in a business organization, it would have rules and regulations on how things function. However, as the business continued to grow and exist for over a decade or a century, its original maintenance of its original vision of how the company should be changed accordingly to adjust new ideas, new laws, and new societal norms. Companies forgot the purpose of their organization in the first place.
In this monkey scenario, the new monkeys are not questioning the reason of how things work. I think in real life environment, some of us might act like the monkeys. We might be working at a company and seeing how it functions. Even though the way the company operates might not be the best way. On one hand, we might not object, because we were just “employees” and we just wanted to get our work done. On the other hand, some of us might stand up and challenge these routines and habits—this is the right way to do. It is important to know of an organization’s cultural values, routines, and ways of doing things. By know those, the company has its direction of representing itself to the world. For example, over the summer, I was working for Boar’s Head on their new product called “The Grillectables”. I did some research on this company and found out that it was established in 1905. It started up as a small business but later expanded to all parts in the U.S, providing Deli meat supplies and other meat products. I met the CEO, the marketing director, and few of the top directors of Boar’s Head. All of them emphasized the importance of Boar’s Head product is its quality. The quality of the product is what it matters and that is what Boar’s Head trying to sell to its customers. The company’s values and traditions still pass on to new employees and are also well-known to the public, and it is a brand we trust. So in this case, the values this company holds help the business successfully. We should all try to understand and question the things we don’t know and we have the rights to do so.
“Organizational culture” is “is a complex set of basic underlying assumptions and deeply held beliefs shared by all members of the group that operate at a preconscious level and drive in important ways the behavior of individuals in the organizational context (Google)” After seniority monkeys got hit by the hose, they each learned that going after ones own needs and wants may sometimes cause one to get into trouble. The monkeys learned that there are rules they must abide by and that if they didn’t follow them and tried to go after the banana in a reckless and headstrong fashion, they would be punished by the cold icy water.
These monkeys were smart. They beat up the forthcoming monkeys in order to teach them a lesson in reckless actions. They managed to show the younglings a thing or two about thinking before one acts. This is similar to the egg experiment in class. We had to devise a plan of action of the egg and we worked to achieve the goals. But little research was done in order to devise a full proof plan. We could probably have checked lecture notes before class and did a research online to see how other plans worked out before attending lecture. We worked in our own accord and without any real experience in how to construct a full proof plan in protecting our egg. In my opinion, we acted recklessly and like them, we chased our goal without proper preparation. Some of the members in class made it. Looked at from a monkey chasing banana perspective, those who ran fastest, got lucky, or did enough research in the matter achieved their goals. Those who, like the first monkey, recklessly chased after their goal got shot down and didn’t gain anything but a lesson from their pursuit.
I think that if the monkeys were not replaced after such a short period of time, the monkeys may probably have devised a plan of action in getting around the hose. After the monkeys told other monkeys about the experiences their elder monkeys had, they probably would have been able to devise another plan of action. They could probably have tried to attack the man with the hose or use the ladder and knock down the banana. Who knows. Banana or no banana, monkeys might one day be able to manage how to work collaboratively one day.
Well, I think that all 4 new monkeys are follow the cultures and habits that they experience to the new 5th monkey. Since all 4 new monkeys receive the same treatment of beating up by the old monkey in the cage when they try to ran up for banana, they believe that it is usual even though they don't know what they hit each other for. It becomes their behavoir, whenver they see a new monkey tries to ran up the stair for banana, they act according to what they have experience in the past to the new monkey.
I think that it is more easy to follow the company culture than be the one to point out the mistake and problems in the company. However, following others is never my style. Therefore, I hope that I will be the one who will points out the problems and mistakes in the company then the one that just always stick in the box.
All five monkeys were replaced and the beating was not stopped. What an interesting story~ This monkey experiment is really good example to represent what’s happening in current companies. The switched monkey with old one got beaten by the other remained monkeys. The remained ones just followed what they’ve seen from other monkeys when they were in a locked cage. Like these monkeys on experiment, lots of people prefer to follow routines, habits, practices, which have been kept for long time in a company. These kind of organizational culture might also have good merit to keep the company stable. They tend to avoid to accept new rules. However, I think we need also somebody who makes difference bravely. A company won’t get any progressed or improvedunless someone takes the plunge for a change. When some new coworker or partner have innovative idea, we have to respect it, rather than ignoring them just like monkeys beat up the new monkey. By trying a new concept into organization culture, company can grow into even better one.
Also, accepting change for old routine ideas can be a bad effect for some company but most companies need a change for better growth. Before we take it into action in our company, we have to research and study enough for the action so that we can protect the company just in case a bad thing happens.
Let’s say there’s someone out there for a renovation for company,
Even though someone goes through a hard time now, he/she might see a better days at the end. This means we may get something we want at the end or if not, we can get lessons from that experience and make some guidelines for not to do. However, the goal must not be only for personal purpose. It has to bring out a good result to a company at the same time. I know. It sounds easy but hard to do it for real because it asks patience and confidence on ourselves. Step by step by keeping in mind that we respect the other's opinions.
The way the monkey's acted is the same way humans would act. We eventually learn when we realize that something isn't going to happen the way we want it. In this case, getting the banana came at a cost, getting sprayed with water. So when a new monkey was introduced, even though he didn't experience the cold water, the other monkey's who did protected him and warned him not to do it because there is a consequence if you do. That cycle continued and eventually the message was sent to everyone, regardless if they got sprayed by the water or not. This is how humans act. If we know something, we pass that knowledge on to other people then pass that same knowledge on to others. It's a cycle and even though we never experience what we are talking about, we believe it to be true because we trust the person who told us.
That is a very interesting monkey story. I found it amazing, yet understandable, that even after all the monkeys in the room had been replaced, they still proceeded to beat the monkey who went for the banana. None of them had ever experienced the cold water treatment, yet they still stuck fiercely by the “tradition” the former monkeys had imprinted on them. Your post seems to encourage people to be the new monkey. Go for the banana, even if there are beatings. You might end up doing something great and even get a banana for all your troubles. Though in many ways you are correct, I feel that sometimes traditions are put into place for a reason. Sometimes it is important that an organizational culture stay the way it is, because that is how things work the best. I agree with your standpoint on being fearless in initiating change, but there are instances where leaving things the way they are leads to the most desirable outcome.
Certainly my choice will depend on the source of my motivation. If the primary source of my motivation is "extrinsic" then I would probably just acquiesce with the organizational culture. If my motivation were more "intrinsic" in nature (for instance, if I derive a great deal of inner satisfaction by making a real difference in my work environment and influencing others)I would probably "monkey around" (and take the beating) until I changed the status quo. Mob mentality always bothered me.
This monkey story reminds me of my younger self. I remember I used to ask my parents a lot of questions when I was a little kid. Things that are explainable, they would definitely take their time to explain it to me. But when you ask them too much WHY questions and they can’t answer it back, they’ll be like, “That’s how it is and don’t ask me anymore question”. I don’t know about you but I usually take it as the face value like how the new monkeys were put into the cage. I’m not saying that my parents raise me the wrong way but I think people nowadays should challenge the culture/tradition a little more. Be more persuasive in asking WHY.
Honestly the picture of the monkeys were awesome. Especially the monkey with the orange hair, he looks like a peach. Talking about being an outcast reminded myself of the day I spoke up about my believes for the mid term that we all had taken. Its not that I wanted to be an outcast but if someone asked me what my opinions were I would have to say it. I did not intend to make the class hate me for my believes but I do think that my opinions are important and if someone ask me about what I thought, I would be glad to share. Sometimes its good to share ideas and get along with the crowd but I think that it is the unique monkeys that come together and create wonderful things. When Galileo first came up with the idea that the Earth revolved around the sun, the church was going to hang him if he did not retract the statement. He eventually retracted the statement but he believed it always and that led him to many other discoveries. He was consider an outcast but he did so many wonderful things and had so many wonderful ideas.
I understand within a company many times many things are not express through words, but imply by actions. There are restrictions that are unclear, but we sort of attach along and get along with, without questioning.
I guess, as a newbie with limited experience, I would not question about anything at most times. However, if the concerns bother me quiet a lot, I will ask the questions. So, I'll say depend on the situation, and depend on what is the question, I will have a different response.
On the other hand, if I don't enjoy working in an environment, I believe, I can find a better and suitable environment where I can fit in more. Unlike those monkeys, they are control by the people to decide where they suppose to be, and where they can be.
This in a way is a psychological experiment. The monkeys are being taught not to climb the ladder to get the banana. Eventually when the monkeys start beating up the newcomers in order to protect them from the unwanted experience of being sparyed by the cold water. Of course the beating up of the new monkeys can be interpretted in different ways.
I like to be the monkey that goes along with whatever others say, I mean I don't want to get beat up, and even if I tried, what difference does it make they have more people. Like working for big company if I were the new employee I won't try to do things that might upset the others, after all they have been there longer and have more power. I have always seen bad stuff happened because new employee tried to things his/her own way and end up getting punish. Especially for government job, you never go with your way you always need to ask the permission, always need to follow the rules and always do the way they do things around there. I have worked for them before and I couldn't take it, they are way too strict, no excuse, got to do thing according to procedures. Well now days corporation are welcome new ideas, new way to do things and encouraging new employee to be creative so I think organization culture has changed alot throughout history, for private organizations that is.
I find this story hilarious yet at the same time a mirror image of organizations. A great example I have of this is back when I used to work in retail. Many of the employees who were with the organization for a long time knew the style of each manager. All the new hires and temporary workers didn't know anything and just did what they were told.. until the older employees started telling stories, giving the new hires weird looks, or simply raising their eyebrows when they did something no one else really did. Eventually, these new hires also began to follows the norms and impose them on all the new incoming employees as well even on days when the other employees weren't around. When the second bunch of new hires asked why, the first ones answered, "Because he does this or doesn't do this if you do that.." However the truth if they never witnessed it and only heard of it. I admit, I also gave in and never challenged whether it was really the case or not.
I think this not only applies to organizations but to life in general because people tend to think and assume that the people who have been around longer know more and have better advice. As the new member, we don't know anything and just take in everything we're told. I think it takes a lot for one to step out and challenge the norms of an organization because they can face potential consequences and many times, people don't like conflicts.
I like being different than everyone else. I like questioning why things are the way they are. Until I get an explanation I don't stop. As in every organization a culture exists and who is someone new to question that culture. But how is someone who is new supposed to know what the culture is? That is where the old employees come in and give you knowledge of the organization, whether it be by telling you or spraying water at you lol..
I thought the monkey pictures were extremely cute.
It was interesting to see that after all the old monkeys were removed from the cage, the learned behavior of the new monkeys remained. It seems to me that one of the new monkeys should have tested the ladder but that is the way many corporations function unless there is a change. Sometimes change can be good for the whole. If one monkey was brave enough to go up the ladder and endure the cold water or maybe no water would have been administered, they all would have had the benefit of the banana.
I would like to be the person that contributes good common sense suggestions which are seriously reviewed. A key factor, I believe, are situations that benefit the whole. Recently, I made a suggestion to company which would alleviate personnel conflicts and my suggestion was accepted and instituted by my superiors. It was a great feeling.
The first group of monkeys who were all sprayed with water had the impression that they were punishable if they went for their own personal goals. I think that this group can justify their individual fears of doubt and discomfort since they had all been exposed to the cold water. However, it does not seem plausible that the second group should prevent each other from reaching for the banana. If they all beat each other up for pursuing a common interest, no one in the end would achieve it. I would like to approach a situation in an organization by challenging their collective opinions and ask why things are done the way they are. This is sometimes easier said than done. It is tough to challenge things that are done by convention in an organization, but in order to growth and productivity, it is necessary.
I think that people should try to reach for the banana and try to do things differently especially if it'll be beneficial. However, it's so hard to break the mold of the organizational culture because it's the way things are done and depending on the organization, the organizational culture may not have changed for years or even decades. If you tried to stick out or in this case, tried to reach for the banana and failed, you'd get beaten up. And if you succeeded, how would you be so sure that the reward would be worth the risk? In the story, you know it's a banana and yeah, they're good, but in life, it just may be a rotten banana. But that also separates those who can show that they're different and possibly better from those who are okay just doing things by following the norms of the culture without ever getting the banana.
It just goes to show that our evolution is a relative term and that we are indeed related to monkeys.
On a more serious note, that kind of behavior is expected from most of the people, or monkeys in this case. Until there is a monkey strong enough to fight others or a new coworker eager enough to questions the existing practices and try to change them by the strength of his arguments nothing new will occur. Remaining in status quo is easy, all you need is to go along and not to think or put any effort but to maintain it. Change is hard, it requires energy and work without certain outcome, some people are just not willing or interested to try.
The first 5 monkeys were programmed to follow certain guidelines otherwise would be punished with a icy water spray. Just like many company cultures, companies set guidelines using punishment and rewards. Although, humans' might have responded the same way, I believe that eventually someone will be brave enough to step out and question the norm of the company.
It would be even more effective if the monkeys collaborated as a team. At times, it is difficult to be the only one to defy the company cultures but if enough people are willing to step a change is more likely to occur.
I would love to be the monkey that defies the norm, but being aware of my personality I would most likely follow the other monkeys, However, if everyone collaborated I would definitely join.
The experiment with the monkeys clearly demonstrates that we are creatures of habit. The "Force of Habit" holds people back in life and we tend to stagnate. It's not easy to break out of it. The "Habit Pattern" of a company can be very stubborn. That's why it's good to change companies at times (if a feeling of stagnation arises) and to continue working in an environment that embraces innovation. You see a pattern like this most often, when the head of the company, or other authorities in lower positions, have been in their situation for a long time. I had bosses that had the attitude, "That's how we've always done it!" and it drives me crazy.
Newer companies tend to be more open, and management methods in general are shifting towards rewarding employees that are bolder and are able to think out of the box.
I had one particular situation that reminds me of myself (the monkey that grabs the banana). As an interior designer I had a really great idea of how to change around one of the floors of a department store. Everybody loved it. On the day I was supposed to change the floor around, I was told by my boss that the owner of the store and his team disapprove of the change. I had already everything set up to go (there is a lot of organization involved!) and I couldn't believe it. There was no way that I'd stop this now but I needed to prove that this was going to be great. I saw myself surrounded by the monkeys, and they didn't look happy. Nevertheless, we came to a deal, I had half a day and the entire deco team (!) to set it up and it turned out a huge success. Sales almost doubled! It was definitely worth to catch the banana =)
This scenario replays in organizations all the time. For the most part, I'll do something only if I understand its purpose or cause. If you tell me to do something and cant provide an adequate reason, then more than likely I'm not gonna do it. Too many times people get caught up routines or traditions and that can be a costly mistake. The world is changing and to we've got to be on top of our game and adapt to that change. Of course no one wants to have a negative experience like the monkey who got beat up. But someones has to be the catalyst for change.
Sometimes it just takes one person to stop and ask Why???
In terms of the organizational culture, it is very hard for new hires (especially women) to change the values, norms, and conventions that have been put in place by those who helped build the company; but not impossible. Think of it this way, the cage represents a traditional organization/ company, the banana represents a position hanging above the glass ceiling, the monkeys that have been in the cage since the beginning represent male employees, and the new monkeys represent female employees. As shown by the first female monkey that replaced one of the old male monkeys, she was being “disciplined” by the other male monkeys that she was not going to climb up the “ladder of success.” After the second, third, fourth, and fifth female monkey replaced all the male monkeys, they had no idea why they were fighting each other as a result of accepting the norms. Nowadays, companies actually want people both male and female in our generation who can provide new ideas and a “breath of fresh air” to their company. It is not unusual to see a woman in a full suit holding a high position in prestigious organizations anymore. All this began with one or a group of women who formed together to question the norms and conventions of the organizational society.
Personally, I would analyze the norms and conventions of the company I am in first. If I dislike it, I would try to get a group together to CHANGE the ways things have been done in the past and fight for what I believe in for the sake of our future.
This is my favorite of the WaterCooler posts! I encounter similar situations at work all the time. The only difference is that I am the monkey who asks "who says so?!" but nobody tries to bit me up : )
Another thing I wonder about is that if monkeys develop social structures similar to humans, there must be some laws of social structuring that govern this planet. And are those laws transferable to the rest of our universe just like the laws of physics?
Usually I would follow the rules because I have tendency to believe others; assuming the rules that were implemented were tested for their accuracy. I question things when I have enough information that refutes the status quo.
I think that the story "Monkey Business" implied to question status quos if there is a potential for gain.
Since the "new monkeys" (the monkeys did not get sprayed ice-cold water from the researcher) did not know why they beat the other "new monkeys" when they approach the ladder for the banana. It is just a matter of how much risk one of the "new monkeys' wants to take to have the banana (while the other "new monkeys sleep).
So changing the status quo requires willingness of taking risk.
This story is really interesting. It is true that it reflects to our real lives. We tended to follow a set of rules or norms that we may not truly understand. I think that's what we called "culture". We can also call those who follow (or us) "ignorant" because they never question themselves about "why".
I do not know if I will be a strong monkey that can against all odds, because I am kind of the person that make compromise. However, if I think the case is really important, then I will speak out and against all odds.
I think the experiment with the five monkeys shows how things are show to us that when we dont ask questions. Like the monkeys they just follow the same routine and what was shown to them what happens if you dont follow the rules or what others think of you. People are somewhat similar to these monkeys because some just follow what others tell them to do, without thinking outside the box and ask why?, How?, when?.
it is understandable why the monkeys who had not recieved the spray treatment just joined in the beating, their only other option was to sit and watch. many humans take that approach when dealing with situations, they either sit and watch or join in. why beat them up? because "all the cool kids are doing it". thats the norm.
personally i'd question things until someone gave me a reasonable answer as to why things are done a specific way. it is tough to challenge those who came before you, but otherwise how would one feel 'doing' without 'reason'?
This is a very interesting article that relates to how some companies orgainize their organization. However if I was the "new monkey" coming in to the cage, I would try to get the bannana, no matter what the outcome may be. If an organization sticks to one plan throughout the lifespan of the company, they will soon be out of business because of competition. In our society and time, we have to adapt and compete with other organizations, so we have to try new things in order to stay on top of the game.
Very interesting study! I think the fact that the monkey that never received the cold water treatment would still attack the new monkey was very intriguing and relates to humans in alot of ways. Who would of thunk it? I guess humans really are developed apes.
This study relates to humans in that alot of us tend to go with the status quo just as the monkey did. It takes a brave soul or a brave monkey to challenge the rest and do what they think is right. But often time doing what we think is right may be best for ourselves and ultimately the group.
But on the other hand this experiment is also a lesson in that animals will do what they have to do to protect themselves. "Survival of the fittest"! The monkeys only beat up the new monkey so they wouldn't get sprayed with cold waters. and i think this is relative to humans because e are often willing to inflict pain or harm on to others if it ensures our safety or benefit.
Ultimately, I think if you were to put humans in a cage and performed the same experiment you may yield similar results.
I have never been one to follow the crowd. At home, im known as the "outspoken loud one." I take this as a compliment. I'm not afraid to speak to my mind, even if others dont agree with me. Just because everyone believes the same thing doesnt make it right. Its not easy going against the norm. However, once the initial battle is over, you can set a precedent for others to follow, and that makes all the difference.
I have never been one to follow the crowd. At home, im known as the "outspoken loud one." I take this as a compliment. I'm not afraid to speak to my mind, even if others dont agree with me. Just because everyone believes the same thing doesnt make it right. Its not easy going against the norm. However, once the initial battle is over, you can set a precedent for others to follow, and that makes all the difference.
This blog entry is very intersting professor because it show the two view points of how things are done in real world sometimes. For example; one, some people just go with the flow. they dont care what we are doing and why we are doing. second, there are people who ask before they do anything that why we are doing this. what is reason behin it. They want to know that complete understanding of a speicific task. I would like to go with the second one. beacause I am a kind of person, who usually want to know every single details before doing anything. I would go ith the flow or in other words any organisations, rules and regulation, if they make sense for me and I believe that, yeah, this is right thing to do.
I think this is just human nature and culture that we just go behind the person who start something new, like in this case monkeys start beating new moneky. Likewise in an organisation, people go what others are doing. they dont even care about asking, why, how and when type of question.
So, I think if we want to be successful we have to ask ourself why we are doing what we are doing ?
What a way to conditionally train these monkeys to not do something. If it was something as severe as getting beaten up by 4 other people, I probably would be the monkey that followed and I would not attempt to get the "banana" again. I would ask why after it happened and leave it alone. People are trained conditionally like that too, it is like reward and punishment. No one wants to do something if they are going to be punished for it. And for the new monkey to think initially, "Why aren't these monkeys going for the banana?" and then getting beaten up for it, that monkey must also realize that there must be a reason why nobody has gone after this banana.
First of all, poor monkeys!! That’s just mean.
The first replacement monkey got beat up because the others wanted to avoid getting sprayed by water, this is negative reinforcement. If applied to people, this can show how we will mistreat others to avoid punishments. As each monkey got replaced, and beaten up when they tried to go for the banana, it became their culture to beat up any monkey that goes for the banana. We all do many things that follow into our corporate culture at work that we just take as fact. For example, my boss never said I need to dress professional every day but I always do, no matter how much I would prefer to just go in my pajamas. Also, animals, and people, learn that if something has bad consequences it should be avoided. In the monkey’s case, first it was getting sprayed with water, then it was being beaten up. The second set of monkeys learned that if they try to climb the ladder they will be beaten up, so if they see anther monkey doing it, they think it needs to be beat up too, this an example of operant conditioning. Skinner did a lot of similar experiments with animals, where he taught them to be attracted to or avoid certain situations. From this behaviorism came about, which focuses on how our experiences, and positive and negatives outcomes (our own and of those around us) of shape our behavior and culture, Thorndike called this the law of effect.
The monkeys are quite interesting actually that after all five of them being replaced they would still go with what they knew was right! I dont agree with that I think sometimes its necessary to step up and realize when rules no longer apply. If not at least ask why that specific rule is in effect, where did it come from and why is it still applicable today.
When people sort of just go with the flow i feel lke they dont really know why they do what they are doing so when they dont know why they dont have the determination to do it right.
The monkeys are quite interesting actually that after all five of them being replaced they would still go with what they knew was right! I dont agree with that I think sometimes its necessary to step up and realize when rules no longer apply. If not at least ask why that specific rule is in effect, where did it come from and why is it still applicable today.
When people sort of just go with the flow i feel lke they dont really know why they do what they are doing so when they dont know why they dont have the determination to do it right.
that was an interesting experiment. i see two different things, (as someone said above) "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "don't knock it til you try it." the "new" monkeys would try to get the banana, but once they tried and couldn't - they didn't try again. I, personally, would WANT to be one to question why the way people do things. and i would probably question it to myself in my head, or perhaps ask maybe one other person (or monkey) why. however, i would most likely be the one that goes along. just because i think i'm the more easy going type that wouldn't want to create conflict. but, at the same time, i wouldn't mind going along with someone who decides to break the mold. (like another person above said, the initial battle would be over.)
I would rather be the one that questions the way things are done. When asking someone why they do something, to only hear the response "I dont know. It's just the way things are," just angers me. Many of us tend to follow the crowd because we are scared to be outnumbered. Nobody likes to be the only one on the outside looking in. Questioning the way an organization works will draw a lot of negative attention. Perhaps even some from the big fishes but once you hear an idea or new concept, its hard not to think about.
Sometimes, negative culture continues to occur and while it may not hurt the company at the moment, eventually it shall. Change is not necessarily a bad thing but if you face it already as beign horrible then only bad will come from it.
I think that in this experiment, the five old monkey that knew if they climb on the ladder and trying to get the banana, they will get cold water which they don't like. And this is also the culture in that case. So when the first new monkey came in, it doesn't know the culture in the case, so it try to climb on the ladder. At that time, other monkeys will beat the new monkey up. That is their way to teach the new monkey how is the culture in the case. And since the first new monkey knew the culture in the case, when other new monkey came in, the first new monkey will teach others new monkey with the same way. And it will goes on and on.
Dr. Laurence J. Peter once said, "Bureaucracy defends the status quo long past the time when the quo has lost its status." I think if we aren't taught throughout our lives, to question the status quo, we will end up just like the monkey's in the experiment. There has only been a handful of times in my life, where my teachers would ever discuss the importance of questioning how things are in this world. Mindlessly excepting "reality" is by far one of the most dangerous threats facing any society. Yet, those teachers who did take the time to discuss this issue, have always been the most influential and memorable in my life. Any famous civil activist, defender of the people's rights, have also championed the call to challenge the status quo. Martin Luther King, Frederick Douglas, Nelson Ghandi, etc. I think every teacher, from grade school to the four year institutions, should never lose sight of teaching their students the importance of challenging the status quo. I'm glad I read this blog, as I will be sure to pay attention in the future to the "organizational culture" of a business I hope to work at.
What makes this very intereting to me, especially at this point of the semester, is that this actually is the time of rising unemployment. This means people are more concerned about staying in the job. According to some research one of things not to do if want to stay in a organization is to be a maverick; which means no banana. Considering this it is wise, during times like this to go along with other monkeys not climbing the ladder. But considering long term affect of this situation, it is wiser to go for the banana. To conclude, everything depends on a situation. because it actually was right not to go for the banana when there was sadistic scientists spraying cold water to monkeys.
Funny experiment! I think when I was younger, I was always asking why things were done a certain way. I was often called annoying, nosy and sometimes on rare occasions, smart to be curious. As I grew up I ask less questions and began accepting things as they are. I think it depends on the situation when it comes to asking questions or accepting the way things are. If things are fine, why bother? But there should also be times when people needs to step up and say something. In my opinion,having a mix of both would be good for all.
I am usually the one to question, and not jump off the bridge after others. However, when one enters a new organization, he/she does not want to stand out in a bad way in front of his/her supervisor, therefore he/she is likely to go along and follow the rules. If questioning things is in his/her nature, sooner or later he/she is ought to start wondering why the banana is untouched, but until this familiarity, and comfort level rises, the odds are things will remain the same.
At my previous job, we had two completely different organizational cultures which were split up into the floors of the office. Unfortunately, I was on the floor of the Presidents office, and got beat up a lot. The people on other floors had multiple coffee breaks, would talk on their cell phones, checked their personal emails, and even surfed the web at times.. all this with no or little consequences. I got in trouble for picking up an urgent call on my cell phone once in the year and a half that I worked there.
Ultimately, my floor was more productive, but to me it always seemed unfair that we didn’t have the same privileges, and that a flight of stairs made us feel like the monkeys in the cage with the unattainable banana.
The experiment is pretty mean towards the monkeys. The cold water conditioned the monkeys not to go for the banana with negative reinforcement for the whole group. When the new monkey came in, the other monkeys didn't want the cold water treatment, so they beat the new monkey up.
I think the first new monkey beat up the other new monkeys because it happened to him. There were established rules. Even though he did not know about why the rules were there, those were the norms. It is hard to go against norms because of peer pressure. Also the monkey might be thinking what punishment might happen if he did not do the same as the gang of monkeys. Also a sense of confusion might be in the monkey's head because he can not figure out why they aren't eating the banana and why he got beaten up.
In the end, they all got used to the way things were being run. Individual monkeys are too afraid to deviate from the norms. Their behaviors are set from the previous generation of monkeys. This is similar to the idea of parental abuse and how it gets passed on from generation to generation. The organizational culture is set from what the monkeys have learned from previous monkeys.
I think it is important to question the organizational culture's norms. If a policy doesn't make sense, there should be action taken to discuss changes to how things run. The norms can be changed to improve efficency. One shouldn't be scared of criticism from others but welcome it because there can be good points in changing policy. The monkey example is a little extreme with the physical abuse. But one could have convinced at least of the monkeys to change their ways. Then the new monkeys coming in would side with the revolters and soon many followers will side with them. It takes time and effort to change the norms because they are spread around so many people. Change is often slow but it is worth the effort at times.
This reminds me of what my MGT 3121 professor calls a "Sam says". Part of our course requires inventory control, and often times business order a certain amount of inventory simply because "Sam says that's how much we've gotta order". The problem is Sam is some guy who left the company years ago. People forget to reassess the circumstances to realize what worked a couple of years ago may not work today.
Either way this is a very interesting experiment. It also reminds me of stereotypes and how sometimes part of the reason why a stereotype holds true is simply because the stereotype exists. By this I mean -for instance, women are taught that they can't quite be the business man or leader that a man could. I mean after all, we have yet to elect a woman to the White House. This "stereotype" is embedded into their head by society to the point where it takes a toll on their dreams. Women don't see themselves in the leadership position because society doesn't teach them to. Thus the stereotype largely holds true because it's around.
...clearly these monkeys needed to see the "Power of Vision" video. =)
I would definitely prefer to question the status quo. In this world in order to move up and along the food chain you cant always play by the rules. If you just follow the examples of others you will find yourself behind them all your life. In order to find real reward and make it to the top, to become that CEO or CFO, you need to take that risk and show what your capable of. Cause just like the 5 new monkeys, you could have the banana if you set the example and show that in risk, there is reward.
This is a classic example how people act in situations because they feel it's the normal thing to due because of their environment. A lot of people submit to certain practices without even questioning it because they observe it being done by others in an organization for example. As for me, depending on the situation, I tend to question why something is the way it is. There were comments made on this article saying "if it's not broken why fix it" but there are situations where people should question certain practices. Not everything in life we should just accept as the right way, we as individuals should learn to as questions, it helps you to understand better and even be more productive.
If i were one of the monkeys, i think i would want to be those that didn't have experience with the cold waters. having others telling you not to do something that might hurt you is better than stepping into the whole like everyone else. but on the other hand i feel that knowing why or why not doing something is better than just follow what other says. i really don't know how to pick.
but i this story makes me think, what type of person am i. am i a person that wants to take risk and experience on more stuff or i just want to be stable and follow the way it was passed on.
This is a great story. I think the moneys all learned that "climbing the ladder is equal to be beaten up", despite the coldwater effect. This is kind of similar to reinforcement which I learned from the management & psychology class. The things that the researchers did, actually have changed the philosophy inside the cage. Well, I have to confess that this is very similar to cooperate culture. And I can see that all cultures have their cons and pros. Pros are we tend to follow the way to work; cons are we are being limited in creativity or innovation of ideas. Anyway, this is another great post.
I think this experiment shows that people use other as guide to what is and isn't allowed. The first new monkey got beaten up, which taughthim a lesson that climbing up that ladder is not something they do in that cage. When the second new monkey was put in and was getting beat up, the first new monkey joined in on the beating because he now felt like knew the "rules" of the cage, and was just trying to reinforce them along with the other monkeys.
This experiment highlights just how easily a pack mentality can reign over one’s individuality. Often in corporate culture, when a new person is hired and they see how things are done, they do not question it. It is very hard to be a maverick, to march to the beat of a different drum. Sometimes we simply accept what is done and continue this cycle, but there are individuals, who come around rarely, that challenge the status quo. They question why things are done the way they are and why they are not done other ways that may be more efficient or just better. The attention that this brings is often not for everyone. Not everyone can handle the pressures that come with being such a leader and some just want to fade into the background with everyone else. Being acclaimed for how well they perform in the current system, not how well they are able to conjure up something new and revolutionary. I think this story is something of a cautionary tale. Take everything presented to you with a grain of salt. Question your surroundings because you may be an agent for positive change that is necessary and will be rewarded. In the end, the reward may justify the risk.
If i were the monkey, i would choose to go along. If I questioned, then i would be beaten up. Even if i got to the ladder, there would be cold water that will spray on me. I couldn't get the banana anyways. Therefore i would choose to go along with the rest, at least no beatings.
However, i have questions on this story. What did the monkeys eat in the cage? if there is no food, except the banana, then i would choose to climb the ladder and get the banana though that i would be beaten up.
Also, the other reason for the new monkeys to choose to act as the old monkeys without the experience of being sprayed by cold water maybe it is because the old monkeys told the new monkeys what will happen if they climb up the ladder through their own language.
I thought this experiment was so so smart! It was funny but very smart and intelligent. So now you ask as what kind of a person we are..whether we question the rules or just do what everyone else is doing. As far as myself, I've noticed that I never really go along with something that i don't agree with or with something that i don't know what I'm doing. In the organizational culture, this situation does happen a lot! And I've seen it many times in different companies or enviroments that I've worked at. People tend to follow others no matter what it is, because they think its the right think to do, or because they want to fit in with the rest. Many times I think it's pretty sad, because people tend to loose their personalities and no one really shows their characters.
Poor poor monkeys. If i had seen that, i would have thought to myself 'theyre so dumb'. But their actions are mirrored in everyday life, let alone the business world. Too many times people do things that dont make sense just because it became part of the routine or because everone else was doing it. But what the world needs is more people to ask why. Its is this question that ultimatly leads to innovation and change. The world is chanmging.. We cannot be stuck in the same rhythms while the world leaves us behind. I think im that monkey that asks why. And then ill get my banana.
Poor poor monkeys. If i had seen that, i would have thought to myself 'theyre so dumb'. But their actions are mirrored in everyday life, let alone the business world. Too many times people do things that dont make sense just because it became part of the routine or because everone else was doing it. But what the world needs is more people to ask why. Its is this question that ultimatly leads to innovation and change. The world is chanmging.. We cannot be stuck in the same rhythms while the world leaves us behind. I think im that monkey that asks why. And then ill get my banana.
this story reminds me that even though i may fail at things i have to think about how far i have come and to push myself with the ambitions that i have. learn from your mistakes and keep your heads up.
it is like if i see a gold bar hanging on the ceiling and 4 other people clearly know there's a gold bar but no one picks it up. I probably wont go pick it, because it is obviously not a good sign. Either it is trapped or it is not supposed to be picked up. i guess i am not courageous enough huh?~ oh well///
How interesting. I want to use this story for training in our organization. I am getting ready for it, so I wanted to add some details of when this experiment took place, and who conducted the study. Funny thing is, I can only find the story told through many sources, but not the actual study case information. Has anyone run into the actual study?
Following the natural order of things is always the easy way around. All you have to do is read the manual and you're set. But we were gifted with brains in our heads. We have the ability to think and decide for ourselves what's right and wrong, what makes sense and what does not. Everyone should think for themselves and do things they decide they want to do not just because it's what they were told to do.
I've heard this story a few times and I was wondering if you, or any of the commenters could point me to the original study.
Thanks.
This is a pretty funny blog. It can apply to some issues today in real world but if we wouldn't learn by punishment and if everyone had to try it in order to learn it this would be an even messier world. It is good to question things and fight for changes but sometimes it is better to leave things as they are. This experiment is very good because it shows us how monkeys(but people as well in real world) can take roles which they did not really deserve.
This experiment is mythical.
http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/6828/was-the-experiment-with-five-monkeys-a-ladder-a-banana-and-a-water-spray-cond
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