For 400 years, higher education in the US has been on a roll. From Harvard asking Galileo to be a guest professor in the 1600s to millions tuning in to watch a team of unpaid athletes play another team of unpaid athletes in some college sporting event, the amount of time and money and prestige in the college world has been climbing.I'm afraid that's about to crash and burn. Here's how I'm looking at it.
1. Most colleges are organized to give an average education to average students.
Pick up any college brochure or catalog. Delete the brand names and the map. Can you tell which school it is? While there are outliers (like St. Johns, Deep Springs or Full Sail) most schools aren't really outliers. They are mass marketers trying to attract the largest number of people they can accommodate.
Stop for a second and consider the impact of that choice. By emphasizing mass and sameness and rankings, colleges have changed their mission.
This works great in an industrial economy where we can't churn out standardized students fast enough and where the demand is huge because the premium earned by a college grad dwarfs the cost. But...
2. College has gotten expensive far faster than wages have gone up.
As a result, there are millions of people in very serious debt, student loan debt so big it might take decades to repay. At some point, word gets around. We won't get fooled again into believing that it always pays off for everyone.
3. The definition of 'best' is under siege.Why do colleges send millions (!) of undifferentiated pieces of junk mail to high school students now? We will waive the admission fee! We have a one page application! Apply! This is some of the most amateur and bland direct mail I've ever seen. Why do it?
Biggest reason: So the schools can reject more applicants. The more applicants they reject, the higher they rank in US News and other rankings. And thus the rush to game the rankings continues, which is a sign that the marketers in question (the colleges) are getting desperate for more than their fair share. Why bother making your education more useful if you can more easily make it appear to be more useful?
4. The correlation between a typical college degree and success is suspect.
College wasn't originally designed to merely be a continuation of high school (but with more binge drinking). In many places, though, that's what it has become. The data I'm seeing shows that a degree (from one of those famous schools, with or without a football team) doesn't translate into significantly better career opportunities, a better job or more happiness than a degree from a cheaper institution.
5. Accreditation isn't the solution, it's the problem.
A lot of these ills are the result of uniform accreditation programs that have pushed high-cost, low-reward policies on institutions and rewarded schools that churn out young wanna-be professors who have merely learned how to ace a multiple-choice test instead of experiences that turn out leaders and problem-solvers.
I think we're about to see significant cracks in old-school schools with mass market degrees.
Back before the digital revolution, access to information was an issue. The size of the library mattered. One reason to go to college was to get access. Today, that access is worth a lot less. The valuable things people take away from college are interactions with great minds (usually professors who actually teach and actually care) and non-class activities that shape them as people. The question I'd ask: is the money that mass-marketing colleges are spending on marketing themselves and scaling themselves well spent? Are they organizing for changing lives or for ranking high? Does NYU have to get so much bigger? Why?
The solutions are obvious... there are tons of ways to get a cheap, liberal education, one that exposes you to the world, permits you to have significant interactions with people who have new ideas and who matter, and to learn to make a difference (start here). Most of these ways, though, aren't heavily marketed nor do they involve going to a tradition-steeped two-hundred-year old institution with a wrestling team. Things like gap years, research internships and entrepreneurial or social ventures after high school are opening doors for students who are eager to discover the new.
The only people who haven't gotten the memo are anxious helicopter parents, mass marketing colleges and traditional employers. And all three will be waking up soon as they face new circumstances.
(with credit to Seth's Blog for the courage to publish this)
59 comments:
I'm going to be a junior this September and I can say I didn't learn anything from most of the classes. Professors either throw out meaningless essays and projects instead of teaching or giving easy multiple choice from textbook without even explain the materials. Test is only a format. I think we should only have one test throw the whole semester to evaluate what we really learn and how we understand because study is a personal thing. It can not be pushed by others so if people don't want to study just don't come to school. However the major problem now is students go to college is only for getting a diloma in order to find a job. And we all know go to a higher rank college is easier to find a good paid job therefore people spend bunch of money to attend NYU,YALE....these private colleges. This circumstance is very unfair to poor students who really have talent but graduate from cheaper colleges.
Is college too expensive? Absolutly! Everyone deserves the chance to go to college, get a degree, and make something of themselves. With the price of college today, even middle class citizens have a hard time with the costs. How is this even possible and what is the big difference between schools that are high costs or cheap costs? Part of the high cost is for the name in itself. People pay good money to say “I’m from Yale” on their resume. And why shouldn’t it cost you, after all, employers pay lots of money for Yale graduates. There are so many costs that the college has to keep their campus flourishing. There is always new equipment, lab material, technology, books, and general maintenance to pay for. I can imagine how quickly it all adds up.
Back in senior year of HS, one of the things I looked at when applying to colleges and deciding on a college was the tuition. It's unbelievable how high tuition is for some colleges. They only get higher and higher. Some people believe that the higher the tuition, the better the education. Many of us know that isn't true. The quality of education depends on various factors, such as professors, programs held by the school or the effort a student makes to apply things.
Also, the way tests play a huge role in determining how well a student does or how much a student knows is unfair. Not everyone is the best test taker and sometimes professors base everything off of 1 test.
A GPA from a college isn't everything when it comes to attaining a job. Your GPA doesn't have to great and you can still land a great career job if you can display something special at an interview. You can also get involved in other things that will make you stand out.
Those mail that college send out to high school students get really annoying. I remember receiving them in HS and only looked at a few of them. They just started piling up until I decided to toss them out.
I think that college is a necessary evil. If it were not for college companies would not be able to distinguish who to hire they would have no basis for hiring. I truly believe that everything you know and every thing you are going to know you learn by eighteen, I think that college teaches you discipline and teaches you the value of hard work. That being said I do understand the argument that college is becoming very expensive, but it has been proven that those who go to Ivy League colleges make the most mone in the future. Going to college also depends on your major, different fields have different returns in terms of salary.
Hi Prof!
You espouse an interesting point of view. At first, thinking about those Ivy League colleges, and high price colleges like NYU, I always thought ah, the price is not worth it! The education, if one is to do a price value comparison, is not of such value to merit the vast cost and tuition increase. Alas, upon further introspection, I was forced to admit that, price aside, the education at those colleges must be better. After all, many world leaders and many inventions or technology are a product of Ivy League training. And then I realized that if 200 thousand dollars fell into my lap and it was possible for me to gain entry into these colleges, I would. Thus, I feel that even though the cost does not accurately reflect the value of the education, the education itself is most likely still among the best. Just my two cents!
Professor,
I find this post very interesting. The melt down in higher education is a terrible truth that, we as american citizens must correct.
Most schools are similar to businesses in that, they try and market the school as a product. Because most college rankings are set up by the number of rejections they make, rankings are not accurate in determining the colleges in terms of quality. I am arguing this because as the number of rejects increase does not necessarily mean the college is better; rather, it means that the demand to apply to the school is greater.
Student debt is extreme because the matter of fact is that not all students who take loans are able to pay back those loans in a acceptable time period. Since it does not pay off for everyone, lenders as well as borrowers must be aware of potential defaults in the future.
It is disturbing to see colleges change their missions from being the best to appearing to be the best. It reminds me of the current financial situation that we just went through because colleges are creating a sort of bubble that appears to be perfect but in fact it is very dangerous.
It is also shocking to know that success is not directly correlated or relative to what school one is from. Success is dependent on the individual and a diploma is just a piece of paper that one receives. Therefore, it doesnt necessarily matter what college a student is from. What matters is, the ability of the student to succeed using his/her skill set.
In conclusion i comletely agree with you professor. Traditional individuals need to wake up because they are living in a bubble that will explode. Education is about learning skills that will be able to aid students in the future as well as learning from mentors that can teach new ideas and innovative thinking.
Everything stated is a 100% true. But unfortunately, not everyone realizes it, or even worse, is willing to accept it. I read an article in Time magazine about how colleges like Harvard have tremendous curves just so their students can get As and their prestige doesn't suffer. It is unfortunate that school has become a business for them, not a way to produce educated individuals.
I think point 4 "The correlation between a typical college degree and success is suspect." is especially important for people to realize. Yes, getting a degree from an Ivy League school can be huge help in getting a great job. If you have the money for it, there shouldn't really be any deterrent from attending. But if you don't have the financial means to go to one of these schools, going to a public school such as Baruch is not a hindrance. It's all about how much hard work you are willing to put into building your own personal brand. Don't have an Ivy League degree to your name? There are many other ways to make yourself stand out. Successful people exist outside of their college degrees. Some haven't even attended college.
As my dad always told me, education is about what you learn and not how much money you spend on learning. I didn't really understand what he meant back then and always thought that it was only his excuse of not paying for my tuition. I used to believe that the higher the tuition, the better the education, but i was proven wrong soon after i started my college career.
I started hearing my friends who went to NYU complaining about how they're failing their classes because they were out partying the whole time. This was when i understood what my dad meant, it's not about how expensive the school is, it's about what you learn from it. I could have gone to NYU paying thousands of dollars and still not gain a single thing from it whereas i could go to a cheaper school and graduate with skills needed for a career.
It is sooooo true what you said about there being little difference in success in respect going to a IVY school vs a cheaper one. I work at an investment bank and I get to look at all the resumes of wannabe interns and it's such a cookie cutter mess. All A's in all the right courses, yadayadayada...and then they start their internships and you wonder how did you manage to tie your shoelace this morning. I've been in school long enough to know that a lot of what we learn is pure rubbish. I mean it's great to learn facts or ideas we didn't know before, but after a while it becomes just memorization. So much of what I deal with at work is about instinct, tact, flexibility. I feel in college it's all about memorizing the right answer as it in the real world the "right" "perfect" answer will solve the complex tasks that don't come from a book. What I can appreciate about higher education is the amount of discipline it requires, and the challenge of juggling 5 different subjects at a time. I think those types of things help your brain expand. Upon graduating I really think what I'll take away is knowing that throughout all these years it was my hard work, my focus, my own sweat that got me through it all.
Once again, big business and this country's radical form of free market capitalism is destroying yet another once (and perhaps last) great American institution - its education system. From the auto industry, to banking and housing, to textiles and food, the corporate world's insane, insatiable appetite for profit over progress, quantity over quality, is sadly and slowly bringing its standards down to that of the Third World.
P.S. Galileo was really offered a position at Harvard? Is that possible?
It is getting far too expensive for the average college student nowadays,the schools know that they're in the best time , as the work force now pretty much demands at least a Bachelors in order to even compete in any career. with this demand increase, the schools know that they can price things higher than before and still have a sell-out number of students. of course we had all concerns about the quality of education. Is there any proof that higher price tag schools generate happier, wealthier grads? The fact that people always think that paying more for certain schools means the quality of students is better, then the students would surround by self- motivated people , they are higher possibility to success.
My mom has always said to me how knowledge is mine to keep and no one can ever take that away from me. So whatever I learn in school is only beneficial to me. My parents didn't push me to get into some brand name college. She thinks it's how much I actually absorb from school is what matters. Brand name school may look and sound smart on the diploma, but you might not actually learn much from them, especially if they're party schools.
I do think that most of the time, students, or the helicopter parents, are selecting a school for the name and paying for that name on the diploma. That's why most schools can charge so much and keep increasing tuition without the worry about not having enough students applying and attending. They keep advertising and sending students brochures and pamphlets to encourage students to apply so they can reject those students, making them seem like a highly selective school and hard to get into. This in turn creates the illusion that their school is top-notch and many people are fighting to get in. It's from those rejection and acceptance numbers that fool people into thinking how great the school is, regardless of the quality of education.
I blame the need of having to run a college like a business. The people that run them need to create an expensive image of the college to attract more students willing to pay their high tuition for their "top-notch" education.
And the need for a diploma to get somewhere in the world is just another reason people go to college. Do they really get more out of brand name colleges than those in lesser known colleges? I think this just all depends on the person. Whether its a famous brand name college or the low-key schools, it's all a matter of how you take the whole learning experience and what you want yourself to get from it.
I have been realizing this for years now especially because I've been criticize for going to a CUNY. People look at colleges like they are a brand name. Is the education the education from a private school really better than from a city school. In my opinion, its about the same except if you really going to specialized field that is proven with statistics that students have gotten job placement because they went a certain college. Also I feel like higher education is really like buying clothes. Why are so many people going to NYU, they are paying almost 10 times the amount that CUNY student are and probably getting the same education. I think it's like what you are saying with schools doing propaganda that makes you feel like NYU is better than CUNY. I think its great that you put this post up because I've been fighting with my peers about this subject and trying to give them more incite into this subject.
This isn't new to me at all. Running a school has always been a business, they did this to elementary schools, then high schools, and now colleges. Schools these days lower their standards to appear better or like you mentioned on your post, reject people for rankings. My High School is being closed down because they covered it too much. They'll just close it down and reopen it as a new school.
I heard from my friend that he knows people who graduated from Syracuse working in the same accounting firm as him and being treated the same as those who graduated from Baruch. It really makes me wonder why people go to a more expensive college instead of going to a cheaper one, when the reward at the end is very similar. I also agree that college now is more about experience, but not just learning new information. College provides the ways to get information, and anyone can study those information on his own. After all, textbook is the requirement, but it's the great people in college that make college fun and lively.
Professor K, the trend in higher education is definitely changing by the day. The average cost per year keeps escalating, while at the same time, the job market seems so volatile that we really sometimes can't put our finger on what will be our outcome. Ideally, every student makes a decision to go for higher learning in order to have a better life. This may mean more money, self-acceptance, or just social status. Personally, I think Baruch is great because it really provides us with an affordable education along with extensive networking abilities through the school, as well as the privilege that Manhattan has to offer by itself.
It is also sometimes frustrating to see athletes make absurd amounts of money through playing and endorsements. This really seems to give some of them an abundance of power that sometimes leads to wrong actions. Often times you see a player under-performing right around the time he gets a huge contract extension. I think that society has come to be so materialistic that we are also to blame for expecting too much from our education. Everyone wants to graduate and just start making six figures. Very few students, it seems, really feel fortunate to have a chance to excel in their learning abilities. Just think, after only one year in college you already have learned so much more then your fellow high school grad who now works at a blue collar place. He might be taking in 300-400 bucks a week, but we have to consider college cost to be an investment on our future.
Paying for a college tuition really sucks. In high school, I never made a decision on which college to go to. I ended up going to Baruch because financial aid covered my full tuition and I also get money back. Money is the reason why I'm in Baruch College. If I were to dorm or go to a private school, tuition money would be such a burden on my parents. Honestly, you're paying the price for the name of the school and whether you get a laptop or not.
All the issues that you have raised are absolutely true and I am sure a lot of students and parents out there think the same way. I remember when I was a senior in high school and how much junk mail i got from college telling me to apply.. i even get them now and i am about to be a senior in college! lol
another point that really intrigued me was the increase in tuition fees all across the board while the salary level hasn't gone up as much. why is that? do they realize how hard they are making it for middle- to low-class families to attend colleges? And especially in today's world, getting a good job depends upon which college you go to? colleges have become more like brand names in today's world.. if you attend harvard, yale NYU or stanford, its considered as if your attending the Mercedes, Bentleys, BMWs or some other high-end cars of colleges. it is really frustrating to have this perspective and be expected to perform well enough to land a great internship or great job offer! I have heard from recruiters that some jobs aren't even made public in schools like Baruch and stuff and only open to sutdents from NYU and Co. Like is this fair? There needs to be a serious reformation in the Higher Education industry and maybe the government needs to crack down on these.. unfairness.
The college experience is way overrated these days. The most prestigious colleges are so hard to get into sometimes (unless you have some connections) and the content you learn is usually the same as a lesser institution so...whats the point of the competition sometimes? The country needs to start finding people that are actually passionate about their jobs and want to teach instead of people who sit around, twiddling their thumbs and writing all test answers on the blackboard. Also, employers looking at resumes usually never meet the actual applicant before proceeding with the hiring process and it's crazy to base a person's chances at a job without having actual human interaction first.
I personally agree that it doesn't really matter which college you go to in respect to how successful you will become. It's true, schools are getting more and more expensive, but is the value of them going up? I wouldn't say so. Going to a cheaper school, rather then a more expensive one does not mean you will get a better job or be more happy. I think that a smart, determined and talented person will be successful weather he goes to a city school or a private one.
After reading your post, I'm reminded of how you've tried to improve our learning experience by adding in-class activities and relevant extra credit assignments. It allows us to get a better understanding of the course. We will leave with some hands-on experience rather than just memorizing before an exam and then forgetting everything after the semester is over. Experience becomes part of your long-term memory, while memorization is short-term. College is what you make of it, you are cheating yourself out of your education if you study just to get a good grade. Your GPA won't mean anything a few years down the road, if you don't remember anything you learned. In college, we are independent adults and we are ultimately responsible for our own education. The student government is an example of us taking control and getting what we seek out of college.
In my opinion, I don't see why I need to take a Science course if I need a BA for Accounting at Baruch. Such requirements pisses me off and I feel like these colleges are just making me take classes that are not even irrelevant to my course. I'm not saying this Management class is one of those irrelevant classes but Biology? Really? Interesting class but still expensive.
At times, I just feel like tests are taken just to prove how well you can take one but it's not entirely based on intelligence.
I think internships and work experiences are the vital key that will get you into your ideal job that's why I think it's much more important to get more experiences than just focusing your whole life on books college forces you to read.
This is a very interesting way to look at the recent conduct of higher education institutions in this country. I have never thought about any of these illuminating points and I'm glad you brought it to our attention. After reading this entry and giving it some thought, I did notice a steep increase in my tuition payments now in relation to freshman year. For example, I remember a 3 credit summer class used to cost around $550 and this summer I will be paying upwards of $700 for one class! It definitely seems like colleges are more worried about their profits and less considerate of the debt their prized graduates will endure shortly after graduation. Also, I had no idea that colleges were ranked based on the amount of applicant they reject. I guess it all makes sense and this is why you see so much advertisement from high end universities. Thank you for opening our eyes to these progressing dilemma's. As the saying goes, "knowledge is power" and we will now all be more knowledgeable students and parents.
I think it's all about Name Branding. People fanicized only by name like "Harvard" or Ive Leage. Some students are dying to get the school's name and reputation for their success future life. It's given previllage to graduate thoese school. I think it used to be that way until job openning has own limitation and human population keep growing.For example, in my country, South Korea, High school students study so hard to get in Seoul national university. After you enter that tiny door, everything would be guaranteed as sucessful life like momeny,honor etc. These day,it's not same story anymore. Our society do value differently what student archieved not what school graduated. But, still School Name brand cannot be ignored. Some people assume those school gives best academic courses with great professiors and facilities. Have you thought about students who actually taking courses? more often students include myself lost what we learn in college except our major course.I doubt these course really necessary to get Business Degree. Sometimes,I think college should be more pratical about real life field expierence. they provide more oppotunities to act outside of school just learning in classroom.
I completely agree with the points you made. I recently read an article in the New York Times that went into more detail about the application process. The whole "one step application" has gone awry and it's merely a marketing scheme (and also statistics scheme) to improve rankings. You also made a very good point in showing the cost of tuition growing exponentially more than wages. There are people in their 30s still paying off loans from college. I've lived through some of these struggles when applying to colleges and I can certainly say that it's not getting easier as times progress. There's a cloud generated by colleges that students and parents have a hard time seeing through in order to make a decision that best benefits them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEf-vJZOj4M
This blog entry actually reminded me about this documentary trailer that I'm very eager to see. Although this post focuses more on higher education I think it starts from the early education, which is a big problem here.
I can safely say I've learned more on my own free time randomly exploring then I have in my classes combined, and this is a reoccurring theme. The art of interactive, thinking outside the box teaching/learning is a art that needs to picked up in more classrooms across campuses.
I hope you enjoy the trailer!
well, having attended Columbia University for two and a half years, i will be the first to say... it is not as great as many people may think! i left for two reasons -(1)i could not afford the $1089/credit cost and (2)the classes were run by the students, professors did not care about anything but publishing their work. the only people that really seem matter were the rich kids whose parents contributed ($$$) in a major way.
the best thing about the school is the network, your fellow students, many of which act like you are not good enough to have even conversation with them...lol. can you believe it? well folks, i learned the hard way!
at the end of the day, higher education is a must, and while some schools pose an advantage over others, you only get out of it, what you put in. success requires more than a degree.
Many people always say that the higher education in the United States is the best in the world, but I don’t think it is that kind great. I strongly agree that 5 problems which professor pointed out. Overall, I think the colleges are much more like a business institution before or have been commercialized. They spend a lot source to recruit students and make more profit. It’s doesn’t make sense that college tuition fee has gotten expensive far faster than wages have gone up. It is no longer reasonable that carry serious student loan debt in higher education and payoff after graduated. I hope the problems can be solved soon.
After reading this post, I couldn't have put this view in words any better. I completely agree 100% with every aspect about mass-marketing colleges in today's day. I feel they value their reputation and rank way more than the education (or the lack of education in some cases) of their students. This is one of the reasons why I am a Baruch student. Before Baruch, I attended NYIT in Westbury, Long Island. Tuition was about $23,000 a year, mind you that with that money, you can pay off 5 years of education here at Baruch. Although NYIT is not one of the most well known colleges in the country, the quality of education there is definitely not worth the dollar. Baruch is much more affordable and gives a more challenging and valuable education. For high school students looking for a college to attend for the next four years of their lives, I would advise them not to attend a school because of their "name" or because of their "basketball team" because at the end of the day, it's not worth the money.
I do think private colleges have gotten too expensive. Rising costs have led to greater enrollment in city school such as CUNY. With that said, i do believe we are getting probably one of the better educations at Baruch for a city college. Baruch business atmosphere prepares you pretty well for a career path of your desire. The increase of enrollment in city colleges is increasing the tuition there as well as in private schools.
College is definitely going more expensive these days. I believe the reasons are simply. Just think of there are more and more people in the world who want or need higher education, and there is only very limited resource for this demand in the society. Now the society needs people with high techniques and skilles. In order to find a job, most people (even some of them don't want school any more) need to get their degree in college. This pushes more people to consider higher education. College is now considered more and more like an investment rather than the opportunity for students to really learn somethings.
Great post! This isn't an issue I've given much thought about, so thank you for bringing it to light.
My views on this topic are mixed. I do believe that the some schools offer better a better education. I transferred from KBCC to Baruch, and I can tell you that the math courses here are much harder than at KBCC. The algebra course here covered twice as much material as the one at KBCC in the same amount of time.
On the other hand, I also know students who are enrolled at some of the more prestigious colleges and lack common sense, and students at Baruch who seem like they would aspire to become prominent leaders in their industry.
The tuition some of these colleges charge is insane. You really are just purchasing the name.
I don't agree with making students take exams either. I don't feel like they hold any real value. I can usually ace most tests I take, but if you asked me a question about the subject a year later, chances are I'll have no idea what the answer is. We're learning all these formula's to solve questions, but who's stopping us from asking a friend or opening a book in the real world? They should teach things that students can apply to the real world.
I also agree that a degree from a more famous school doesn't translate into significantly better career opportunities that those from cheaper institutions. I once overheard a girl talking during an orientation at Baruch about how she worked at KPMG, and that there were more interns there from Baruch than NYU.
I completely agree with the first statement. College has just become a way to manufacture standardized students with a quantifiable track record. Most students, including myself, are starting to feel like customers who are buying a piece of paper. In the process of obtaining that piece of paper, one might pick up a few things along the way. School is no longer about becoming a more well-rounded person, but about getting good grades so you can obtain a job. I think that especially at Business Schools like Baruch, this trend is even more dominant, because most students and teachers are focused on receiving and giving high grades. One of the reasons are sites like ratemyprofessor, because it accelerates the downward trend.
Unfortunately, in most cases, a diploma from expensive private school is an indicator of a good education? But is it really true? I believe that, for example, Baruch education in business is not worth business education in NYU. What really is important is how much effort a student is willing to put in his studies, is he willing to learn and grow in his field, and of course experience. To get all these things you don't need to finish prestigious school. A truly good worker will be valued regardless. What's really unfair is that more doors are open to prestigious diploma holders that makes the rest to get into good places more harder. However it's still possible
It is true that Ivy league schools are so expensive because of the name they have. For example NYU is considered very prestigious but many leave it and end up in Baruch because it is cheaper. They realized that Baruch is a credited business school and they can get a good education without having to pay all that money. I feel lucky to be in this school because all the professionals I have met tell me thatI am going to a good school without having to pay a high tuition.
It is a very interesting research. In my opinion, nowadays, having a Bachelor degree in the US is not enough to find a good job, but it is essential. I am a translate student, and I already finished my two year college and got an Associate degree. However, I found it is not really helpful when I want to get a good job, but at least I could learn something from college. Compare with Baruch and my old college, I found that I could learn more in my old college. I think because of fewer students in a class, more assignments, and more tests. The most important thing is that the old college is less expensive. I had only had to pay for 2 semesters, and the other 2 short semesters were free. In Baruch, it is hard to get a good grade. I think that it is less assignments and less test, so the tests hold more points in the entire grade.
I noticed during high school how high tuition was getting in college. Every year it seems like tuition is increasing in huge amounts. Tuition is not only increasing in private universities, also increasing here at Baruch.
Although Baruch doesn't make us pay as much as most private universities, the increase in tuition does effect us.
I'm not a big fan of test being the only decision maker in our grades. Sometimes I'm not the best test taker and would like another way to evaluate if we learned something from the class.
Sounds like a pretty good arguement. I wonder what would possibly happen a decade or two from now, what will change in the way colleges / universities do business?
I think what the prof point out is true. University is working like a business. Trying best to sink for profit. There is no agurment that a private college offer better enviorment and connection for their fellow student, but it doesn't mean that their student are smarter. Never judge someone from what college they gradurated from. More important is how deep they know their class materials.
I think the thing I liked most about your class is that it didn't focus solely on teaching for a test. Education styles in general have been lacking practical applications. Your class made us take concepts, and then think "outside the box" to come up with real-world solutions. Education and colleges have become more of a business that no longer focuses on the original goal - providing a place for the next generation to expand and grow intellectually.
You are 100% right professor saying that "College has gotten expensive far faster than wages have gone up" Only for last year the college tuition went up twice already.
There are millions of students like me in very serious debt, our loan debt so big and it will take decades to repay.
This is an interesing topic. I have never thought about the college that way. But now I realize that what I have learned so far from college courses mostly is how to momorize things fast and how to guess the right answers from ultiple choice questions. of course, some professors give us very refreshing assighnment from time to time but not many. I am glad to read this topic today and thanks for writing this, professor.
Running for-profit business requires sacrifices. Higher Education providers (along with hospitals) are experiencing highly lucrative and competitive times. It is the brand that is being promoted in today's war over territory and future American minds. Marketing schemes, donations, naming right to buildings and campuses, affiliations, and etc. I feel that in this individualistic society brand name colleges and universities are here to stay. Education as a background, these establishments provide tradition, respect, relevance, and separation from "common folks". Few months ago, during one of my tennis practices in Syosset (most of our students are from well-to-do families), kids were using names Nassau/Suffolk Community College as a derogatory term. As people move along the social status, their desire to separate themselves and associate with people above their current status, usually involves making bad decisions, like choosing pricey colleges that have reputation rather than education leadership. Higher educators have been giving a liberty to make their standardized tests and lower the requirements. Unfortunately, ignorance prevails over intelligence in today's society when you look at US population in general. There are lobbying groups whose interest is not "higher" education but rather higher profits. US education, in comparison with other leading industrialized nations, is far below in efficiency in overall rankings. People are pulling their 401k's to pay for education rather than retirement, they want success for their children. Sometimes those college loans of $100,000 and 4-6 years of education only buy you a spot at the unemployment line. Question should be raised: May I get a refund????? If someone spends years of their lives and money that could have been spent wiser, they should have a right for a refund. For-profit businesses are required to provide you with a minimum set of guaranteed services. So should the educators. Tell your local senator we need a "bill of rights" for college students!
Education needs an intelligence driven, innovative transformation. Schools need to incorporate more cultural and dialogue driven classes. Our lives are multi-dimensional and our education should reflect the same. I do not spend my life in only few rooms and my educators should not limit me to that either. So much more to say....thanks for feeding our appetite Prof. K.
Professor,
I think that this info is very insightful and uplifting to students like my self who feel that going to a public university isn't as prestigious as going to a big name school. I have to say that the more research I do the more I realize that its not the school you go to, but the person who determines their success.
Just to add to this, in today's (well yesterday's by now) NYT, there was an article dedicated to "Low Graduation Rates at For-Profit Colleges". Numbers explain whole range of issues and one number from the article was startling: "...citing federal data that suggests only 9 percent of the first-time, full-time bachelor's degree students at the University of Phoenix, the nation's largest for-profit college, graduate withing six years..."; heavy debts have many young adults choosing different path due to high costs. Concern is presented to the fact that so many students graduate with large sumps of unpaid money. Is this the message and the ideology in approach to recent graduates? Putting financial pressure on someone who did not even graduate is not supportive, it can lead to regression.
I agree with the third point. A college (also in NYC) that is known for being very selective and therefore, becomes one of the top colleges HS students apply to, pulled one of these tactics. When I was applying for college, it was the first year that this college waived its application fee and my friends jump at this opportunity. Some people who applied were people who would have applied even if there was an application fee, but there was also a plethora of people who just applied for the sake of it and because it was free to apply. This definitely allowed that college to boost their rejection rate.
I also agree with the point made in #5. There are so many teachers who teach straight from the textbook or the PowerPoint presentations. I've even had a professor who read directly, from the start of the class to the end, from the slides. These are the classes that I don't feel like I have the need to go to because I can just learn the material by myself at home.
Talking about college fee going up. I just looked at my tuition fee bill on e-sims and guess what?! Student fee has gone up again. You are defiantly right in your remark that tuition fee is starting to be overwhelming. In todays age when college seem as a though we continue high school, when so many young professionals graduate from college, now is the time to give free education to all.
Education has been an achievement that many people in life have the opportunity to receive. From the old days to the present, education and the role of it has changed tremendously. The way I look at it now is in a business point of view, because that's what it really is. Tuition increasing, budget cuts, and all the other chaos that is hidden throughout campuses across the world.
The correlation between a typical college degree and success is suspect. I can kind of understand what you mean by this, but what I look for more is vision. Having a plan and actaully doing something about it to get you there. They say everyone wants an education, but no one wants to pay for it. This kind of pinpoints that education is not what it used to be. In a way its less learning and more procrastanating.
I always believed that the quality of education should not be solely based on the price. Since unfortunately schools are turning into businesses in many ways every day trying to rank higher by refusing applicants and such similar actions, and from what we see every in every day life that people students who come out of highly ranked and Ivy league schools tend to be very successful bring us all to one conclusion that we should if we can spend as much as possible on the schools in order to make the most of it.
Post a Comment